1 00:00:22,929 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:33,110 --> 00:00:25,910 hello and welcome to the scripting zone 3 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:33,120 episode number 150 Wow 150 for the third 4 00:00:39,229 --> 00:00:36,450 of sep tember 2011 Richard Saunders here 5 00:00:42,459 --> 00:00:39,239 with you from Sydney Australia a year 6 00:00:45,010 --> 00:00:42,469 ago I was in Atlanta Georgia at 7 00:00:48,950 --> 00:00:45,020 dragoncon which is on right now 8 00:00:53,510 --> 00:00:48,960 recording episode 100 of the skeptic 9 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:53,520 zone and here we are at 150 so sorry I 10 00:00:59,200 --> 00:00:57,090 can't be with you at Dragon Con this 11 00:01:03,110 --> 00:00:59,210 year all those people at dragoncon or 12 00:01:05,509 --> 00:01:03,120 listening to this after dragon con it's 13 00:01:07,670 --> 00:01:05,519 a wonderful experience I was there for 14 00:01:10,789 --> 00:01:07,680 three years in row dr. H he was there 15 00:01:13,010 --> 00:01:10,799 too for a couple of years well it's a 16 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:13,020 very long way to go but maybe maybe in 17 00:01:19,670 --> 00:01:15,650 the future we can head back to dragoncon 18 00:01:22,940 --> 00:01:19,680 well what's on this week's show we have 19 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:22,950 king off dr. Rachel reports with some 20 00:01:32,030 --> 00:01:28,130 news about our favorite chiropractor 21 00:01:34,780 --> 00:01:32,040 Nimrod wiener Nimrod wiener you will 22 00:01:39,410 --> 00:01:34,790 recall was caught out bad-mouthing 23 00:01:41,590 --> 00:01:39,420 vaccinations in public lectures and now 24 00:01:44,060 --> 00:01:41,600 well he's reaping what he sowed 25 00:01:46,490 --> 00:01:44,070 following that dr. age he's back with 26 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:46,500 another tam 9 interview this time our 27 00:01:53,539 --> 00:01:50,460 good friend and investigator Joe Nickell 28 00:01:57,319 --> 00:01:53,549 find out why he loves to investigate man 29 00:02:00,020 --> 00:01:57,329 monsters and why the term paranormal 30 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:00,030 investigator don't really sit well with 31 00:02:06,770 --> 00:02:03,530 him close behind joe Nichols interview 32 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:06,780 it's may not out dear friend Maynard's 33 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:10,649 back with a very very interesting report 34 00:02:19,190 --> 00:02:12,810 main art is the only man I know to do 35 00:02:22,940 --> 00:02:19,200 a live report from inside a bowel ye yes 36 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:22,950 there are many jokes there oh boy but 37 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:24,690 i'll let you think of those jokes an 38 00:02:33,650 --> 00:02:29,010 important Maynard report this week all 39 00:02:36,290 --> 00:02:33,660 about your bowel and bowel health worth 40 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:36,300 listening to to round off the show it's 41 00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:38,730 the welcome return of iran sir give with 42 00:02:44,870 --> 00:02:41,880 a grain of salt this time he interviews 43 00:02:48,110 --> 00:02:44,880 leo egg way all the way from nigeria in 44 00:02:50,479 --> 00:02:48,120 africa leo is a dedicated campaigner for 45 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:50,489 the skeptical scientific rationalist 46 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:53,130 humanist point of view in probably one 47 00:02:59,059 --> 00:02:56,010 of the hardest places to carry out this 48 00:03:04,430 --> 00:02:59,069 sort of work in Africa he's been 49 00:03:06,710 --> 00:03:04,440 attacked literally attacked faces all 50 00:03:08,690 --> 00:03:06,720 sorts of obstacles but recently he was 51 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:08,700 in Australia as a guest of Australian 52 00:03:15,020 --> 00:03:12,090 skeptics and I think you'll find this 53 00:03:18,020 --> 00:03:15,030 interview very interesting and it makes 54 00:03:20,870 --> 00:03:18,030 me realize how easy we have it in this 55 00:03:23,509 --> 00:03:20,880 country especially in Australia when it 56 00:03:26,930 --> 00:03:23,519 comes to promoting skepticism as opposed 57 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:26,940 to somebody from Africa well some of you 58 00:03:31,759 --> 00:03:28,769 may know that the giant American chained 59 00:03:35,509 --> 00:03:31,769 costco has opened here recently in 60 00:03:38,180 --> 00:03:35,519 Sydney I went along and signed up I love 61 00:03:42,710 --> 00:03:38,190 a wandering around those shelves full of 62 00:03:45,289 --> 00:03:42,720 American goodies including oh yes my 63 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:45,299 favorite root beer so I'm going to run 64 00:03:52,819 --> 00:03:49,500 downstairs have a nice cold glass of 65 00:04:13,300 --> 00:03:52,829 American root beer and let you enjoy 66 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:16,670 now it's time for dr. Rachel reports 67 00:04:24,470 --> 00:04:22,290 with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello listeners 68 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:24,480 and welcome to this short episode of dr. 69 00:04:27,950 --> 00:04:26,610 Rachel reports well I thought I'd give 70 00:04:30,110 --> 00:04:27,960 you a quick update on what's been 71 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:30,120 happening in Australia recently because 72 00:04:33,890 --> 00:04:31,650 there has been a few smackdowns 73 00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:33,900 particularly in the area of chiropractic 74 00:04:38,210 --> 00:04:36,240 some of you who follow my blog or follow 75 00:04:39,860 --> 00:04:38,220 me on twitter may have heard of a 76 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:39,870 chiropractor by the name of nimrod 77 00:04:44,900 --> 00:04:43,530 wiener and yes that is his name new 78 00:04:47,420 --> 00:04:44,910 brand got himself into a bit of trouble 79 00:04:49,490 --> 00:04:47,430 recently because a journalist from 80 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:49,500 Australian doctor magazine went along to 81 00:04:54,770 --> 00:04:52,410 one of his seminars which he gives free 82 00:04:57,380 --> 00:04:54,780 to the public every few months about 83 00:04:59,600 --> 00:04:57,390 vaccinations I also went to this seminar 84 00:05:02,150 --> 00:04:59,610 back in December 2010 and I blogged 85 00:05:04,670 --> 00:05:02,160 about it back in December and it's on my 86 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:04,680 blog called the Wakefield in the room in 87 00:05:09,230 --> 00:05:06,270 fact I've written about this several 88 00:05:11,060 --> 00:05:09,240 times since so when that this journalist 89 00:05:13,340 --> 00:05:11,070 from Australian dr. heard about Nimrod 90 00:05:16,340 --> 00:05:13,350 Weiner he asked me about his seminars 91 00:05:18,530 --> 00:05:16,350 and then he went along now what he did 92 00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:18,540 was he took notes and he also recorded 93 00:05:22,460 --> 00:05:20,760 the seminar and then at the end of the 94 00:05:24,230 --> 00:05:22,470 lecture he went up and spoke to mr. 95 00:05:27,950 --> 00:05:24,240 Weiner and asked him if he could put the 96 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:27,960 audio up online mr. Weiner declined but 97 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:29,430 he agreed to be interviewed by the 98 00:05:35,180 --> 00:05:32,850 magazine a few months later after 99 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:35,190 obtaining legal advice Australian doctor 100 00:05:39,830 --> 00:05:36,930 decided they would put the audio online 101 00:05:42,530 --> 00:05:39,840 anyway because they deemed it to be in 102 00:05:45,170 --> 00:05:42,540 the public interest now this is for a 103 00:05:47,210 --> 00:05:45,180 couple of reasons first of all Nimrod 104 00:05:48,830 --> 00:05:47,220 Weiner is the vice president of the 105 00:05:51,710 --> 00:05:48,840 chiropractor's association of australia 106 00:05:53,450 --> 00:05:51,720 new south wales branch he's also on the 107 00:05:55,460 --> 00:05:53,460 board of the australian spinal research 108 00:05:58,219 --> 00:05:55,470 foundation which is a self-styled 109 00:06:00,710 --> 00:05:58,229 scientific research body and he's on the 110 00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:00,720 Executive Board of the CAA New South 111 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:03,510 Wales after Australian dr. posted the 112 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:05,910 audio online which was back in August I 113 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:07,890 received a call from a journalist from 114 00:06:11,630 --> 00:06:10,110 the Australian magazine who was 115 00:06:12,559 --> 00:06:11,640 interested in the anti-vaccination 116 00:06:15,379 --> 00:06:12,569 beliefs 117 00:06:16,669 --> 00:06:15,389 of chiropractors this article eventually 118 00:06:18,889 --> 00:06:16,679 appeared in the Australian newspaper 119 00:06:21,949 --> 00:06:18,899 under the title Cole to probe 120 00:06:23,869 --> 00:06:21,959 anti-vaxxers basically about the 121 00:06:26,119 --> 00:06:23,879 misinformation that Nimrod we know was 122 00:06:29,029 --> 00:06:26,129 spreading in his seminars about the 123 00:06:30,499 --> 00:06:29,039 safety and efficacy of vaccines now if 124 00:06:32,540 --> 00:06:30,509 you have a look at my blog you'll see 125 00:06:34,429 --> 00:06:32,550 the sort of stuff he discusses but for 126 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:34,439 those of you who are familiar with the 127 00:06:39,619 --> 00:06:37,770 modus operandi of anti-vaxxers it's the 128 00:06:42,459 --> 00:06:39,629 same stuff that you see trundled out 129 00:06:45,139 --> 00:06:42,469 every single time you know the things 130 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:45,149 vaccines have never been tested vaccines 131 00:06:49,909 --> 00:06:47,490 contain toxic ingredients vaccines 132 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:49,919 contain mercury vaccines cause SIDS 133 00:06:54,829 --> 00:06:53,610 autism ADHD all sorts of other diseases 134 00:06:57,589 --> 00:06:54,839 that have nothing to do with 135 00:06:59,600 --> 00:06:57,599 vaccinations and the kind of stuff that 136 00:07:01,939 --> 00:06:59,610 basically scares parents and young mums 137 00:07:03,559 --> 00:07:01,949 into not vaccinating their kids and then 138 00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:03,569 we get the resurgence of 139 00:07:07,850 --> 00:07:05,969 vaccine-preventable diseases as we've 140 00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:07,860 seen recently with such diseases as 141 00:07:12,619 --> 00:07:10,769 measles and especially whooping cough so 142 00:07:14,329 --> 00:07:12,629 following the publication of this in the 143 00:07:17,059 --> 00:07:14,339 Australian magazine there was an article 144 00:07:19,879 --> 00:07:17,069 on radio national which is obviously a 145 00:07:22,189 --> 00:07:19,889 national radio program also covering the 146 00:07:24,499 --> 00:07:22,199 story but the interesting thing was that 147 00:07:26,689 --> 00:07:24,509 none of these journalists could get mr. 148 00:07:28,759 --> 00:07:26,699 Weiner to comment and indeed when they 149 00:07:31,609 --> 00:07:28,769 contacted the chiropractor's association 150 00:07:35,119 --> 00:07:31,619 of australia they were referred to a PR 151 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:35,129 company who simply said the CAA nsw does 152 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:37,050 not have a position on vaccinations and 153 00:07:41,239 --> 00:07:38,490 any comment from individual 154 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:41,249 chiropractors is their own opinion in 155 00:07:44,869 --> 00:07:42,930 the meantime the journalists from 156 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:44,879 australian doctor was in touch with me 157 00:07:48,350 --> 00:07:46,649 and asking me about whether anyone had 158 00:07:51,139 --> 00:07:48,360 actually ever made a complaint about 159 00:07:52,549 --> 00:07:51,149 Nimrod Weiner this was because across 160 00:07:54,859 --> 00:07:52,559 several of the articles that he had 161 00:07:56,839 --> 00:07:54,869 written about Nimrod Weiner some members 162 00:07:58,999 --> 00:07:56,849 of chiropractic professional bodies were 163 00:08:00,859 --> 00:07:59,009 calling for an investigation however 164 00:08:03,139 --> 00:08:00,869 they stated that they couldn't 165 00:08:06,829 --> 00:08:03,149 investigate the Nimrod Weiner unless 166 00:08:08,719 --> 00:08:06,839 they had an official complaint so I went 167 00:08:10,999 --> 00:08:08,729 back through my emails of which I get 168 00:08:13,249 --> 00:08:11,009 many and some of which I miss because I 169 00:08:15,170 --> 00:08:13,259 remembered that a few months earlier a 170 00:08:16,999 --> 00:08:15,180 gentleman by the name of dr. John 171 00:08:19,489 --> 00:08:17,009 Cunningham who's a surgeon from 172 00:08:21,769 --> 00:08:19,499 Melbourne had sent me a complaint he had 173 00:08:23,389 --> 00:08:21,779 made about mr. Weiner in fact he had 174 00:08:26,439 --> 00:08:23,399 made a complaint the Australian health 175 00:08:29,890 --> 00:08:26,449 practitioner regulation agency or Oprah 176 00:08:31,959 --> 00:08:29,900 back in April this year it was surely 177 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:31,969 after that that he received notification 178 00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:34,130 that his complaint had been dismissed in 179 00:08:38,409 --> 00:08:36,560 fact the complaint had been passed on to 180 00:08:40,659 --> 00:08:38,419 the chiropractic Council of New South 181 00:08:43,990 --> 00:08:40,669 Wales and they dismissed it in June and 182 00:08:46,180 --> 00:08:44,000 they stated that the council considered 183 00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:46,190 that dr. Weiner was entitled to put his 184 00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:48,260 opinion forward and that this was not in 185 00:08:53,050 --> 00:08:51,649 breach of the code of conduct so the 186 00:08:55,180 --> 00:08:53,060 journalist from Australian doctor was 187 00:08:56,740 --> 00:08:55,190 dissatisfied with this response and so 188 00:08:59,560 --> 00:08:56,750 he put together a series of questions 189 00:09:01,689 --> 00:08:59,570 which he then sent to the chiropractic 190 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:01,699 Council pretty much asking them to 191 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:04,010 explain themselves amongst these 192 00:09:08,230 --> 00:09:06,170 questions were things such as did the 193 00:09:10,660 --> 00:09:08,240 council have any convincing scientific 194 00:09:12,550 --> 00:09:10,670 evidence that mass inoculations had 195 00:09:14,439 --> 00:09:12,560 never contributed to eliminating 196 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:14,449 childhood diseases and if so could they 197 00:09:19,449 --> 00:09:16,490 present that information to the 198 00:09:21,550 --> 00:09:19,459 journalists also he asked if the Council 199 00:09:23,290 --> 00:09:21,560 believes it to be true that when 200 00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:23,300 children get vaccinated they're injected 201 00:09:27,069 --> 00:09:25,040 with some of the most lethal poisons 202 00:09:30,129 --> 00:09:27,079 known to man including things like 203 00:09:33,610 --> 00:09:30,139 mercury aluminium formaldehyde phenol 204 00:09:35,980 --> 00:09:33,620 ant killer monkey cow pig chicken sheep 205 00:09:38,769 --> 00:09:35,990 dog tissue fetal tissue you know that 206 00:09:40,530 --> 00:09:38,779 can answer normally come and he asked if 207 00:09:43,540 --> 00:09:40,540 they could provide an example of 208 00:09:44,980 --> 00:09:43,550 evidence to support these things along 209 00:09:46,930 --> 00:09:44,990 with whether or not the council 210 00:09:49,660 --> 00:09:46,940 generally thought many of the statements 211 00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:49,670 on mr. wieners website were factual he 212 00:09:53,350 --> 00:09:51,500 published the response he got from the 213 00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:53,360 chiropractic Council of New South Wales 214 00:09:57,550 --> 00:09:55,760 this afternoon and essentially in 215 00:10:00,189 --> 00:09:57,560 response to all the questions posed by 216 00:10:02,850 --> 00:10:00,199 this journalist the chiropractic Council 217 00:10:06,639 --> 00:10:02,860 responded with one sentence that was 218 00:10:08,290 --> 00:10:06,649 quote the chiropractic counsel have 219 00:10:12,300 --> 00:10:08,300 determined that they will not provide a 220 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:12,310 response to your inquiry end of response 221 00:10:17,590 --> 00:10:15,170 so this is certainly not the end of this 222 00:10:19,509 --> 00:10:17,600 saga this will certainly be pursued 223 00:10:21,759 --> 00:10:19,519 further but it's very very interesting 224 00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:21,769 that the only response the chiropractic 225 00:10:25,059 --> 00:10:23,120 council will give is they will not 226 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:25,069 respond but it's pretty irresponsible 227 00:10:30,819 --> 00:10:28,010 for a professional body to simply ignore 228 00:10:33,340 --> 00:10:30,829 a complaint from the public when it 229 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:33,350 comes to a chiropractor someone 230 00:10:37,569 --> 00:10:35,569 registered under their own professional 231 00:10:40,390 --> 00:10:37,579 body spreading misinformation about 232 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:40,400 vaccinations so I'll be sure to keep 233 00:10:46,050 --> 00:10:43,370 updated about where this story ends up 234 00:10:59,930 --> 00:10:46,060 because it's not going to end here and 235 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:03,150 hello on our needle on solo scoffs of 236 00:11:07,650 --> 00:11:05,290 dick moment been to an atlas another 237 00:11:12,270 --> 00:11:07,660 skeptic zone for we to swap and Katie 238 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:12,280 Schneider incur a meeting for Marcy Hana 239 00:11:33,180 --> 00:11:31,090 really been skeptics own fund TV helotes 240 00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:33,190 knows dr. Richie here and this week I 241 00:11:38,700 --> 00:11:35,200 presents you another interview from Tom 242 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:38,710 9 Las Vegas this week I'm speaking to 243 00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:41,530 joe nickell who similarly to Ben Radford 244 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:43,120 who was on the skeptic zone last week 245 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:45,250 does investigations into the paranormal 246 00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:48,490 and in particular monsters and also like 247 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:51,400 Ben Joe uses his background in private 248 00:11:55,530 --> 00:11:53,350 investigation to go out and actually 249 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:55,540 look for these monsters so he's had lots 250 00:11:59,970 --> 00:11:57,970 of really interesting adventures this 251 00:12:01,560 --> 00:11:59,980 week we talked about his latest book but 252 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:01,570 Joe is a prolific author and has 253 00:12:06,090 --> 00:12:03,130 published many many books which you'll 254 00:12:10,030 --> 00:12:06,100 find on his website so here we are from 255 00:12:19,009 --> 00:12:13,639 well well let's talk about you oh is 256 00:12:21,769 --> 00:12:19,019 that okay and as an old Carney um once 257 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:21,779 told me leaning back in his trailer at a 258 00:12:28,210 --> 00:12:23,910 carnival and he said so let's talk about 259 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:28,220 my favorite subject me me was it was 260 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:31,050 delightfully honest and he was in his 261 00:12:36,499 --> 00:12:33,930 element well hello joy Nicole and 262 00:12:38,030 --> 00:12:36,509 welcome to the skeptic zone pleasure to 263 00:12:40,389 --> 00:12:38,040 be with you again thank you for taking 264 00:12:43,939 --> 00:12:40,399 the time to speak to us here at ten nine 265 00:12:46,489 --> 00:12:43,949 all is always a great event and always 266 00:12:48,980 --> 00:12:46,499 great to see you thank you well I want 267 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:48,990 to talk to you about your book yes which 268 00:12:54,350 --> 00:12:51,930 book is that I've written which one yeah 269 00:12:56,989 --> 00:12:54,360 I have you answer I guess yeah well the 270 00:12:59,869 --> 00:12:56,999 tracking the man-beast Sasquatch 271 00:13:02,179 --> 00:12:59,879 vampires zombies and more yes it's the 272 00:13:05,629 --> 00:13:02,189 boar that gets scary yeah yeah but 273 00:13:09,379 --> 00:13:05,639 that's a that is the new one and if I 274 00:13:11,540 --> 00:13:09,389 may say it was fun to write one reviewer 275 00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:11,550 said it was fun it got very goose has 276 00:13:16,490 --> 00:13:14,160 gotten very very good reviews yeah I'm 277 00:13:19,639 --> 00:13:16,500 pleased that it has with one exception 278 00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:19,649 and that was from Bigfoot times and I'm 279 00:13:24,740 --> 00:13:22,769 not surprised really is a guy sort of 280 00:13:28,129 --> 00:13:24,750 wagged his finger and then in the review 281 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:28,139 it said make no mistake Nicholas both a 282 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:31,170 skeptic Canada bunker right and I think 283 00:13:34,189 --> 00:13:32,730 he couldn't have read all of the 284 00:13:37,009 --> 00:13:34,199 introduction of the book and reach that 285 00:13:40,490 --> 00:13:37,019 conclusion but that's it but he did well 286 00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,500 and this this happens to me a lot and 287 00:13:44,660 --> 00:13:42,240 they're so sure that I must be a 288 00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:44,670 debunker that they only have to glance 289 00:13:49,610 --> 00:13:46,639 at my blocker something they just 290 00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:49,620 confirms with obviously I'm skeptical 291 00:13:51,540 --> 00:13:51,120 about something in that so I must be 292 00:13:53,699 --> 00:13:51,550 closed 293 00:13:57,090 --> 00:13:53,709 right and they ignore the fact that no I 294 00:13:58,889 --> 00:13:57,100 was no we went we went to the Pacific 295 00:14:00,960 --> 00:13:58,899 Northwest and stayed in a cabin and we 296 00:14:04,350 --> 00:14:00,970 walked for miles back in the bushing and 297 00:14:08,519 --> 00:14:04,360 we looked at you know for Bigfoot and we 298 00:14:10,769 --> 00:14:08,529 gave him you know every opportunity no 299 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:10,779 no that doesn't count because you really 300 00:14:14,750 --> 00:14:13,240 didn't believe enough because you are a 301 00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:14,760 paranormal investigator extraordinaire 302 00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:16,720 when you've been doing this for a very 303 00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:19,630 long time thanks for that adjective but 304 00:14:23,610 --> 00:14:21,519 you know I used to use the term 305 00:14:26,569 --> 00:14:23,620 paranormal investigator and I use it 306 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:26,579 early in my career as much as anybody I 307 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:30,010 didn't coin the term but but I had been 308 00:14:35,069 --> 00:14:32,170 a detective and that word investigator 309 00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:35,079 was almost sacred to me was like that's 310 00:14:38,610 --> 00:14:36,399 the best thing you could be as an 311 00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:38,620 investigator not a debunker not a but an 312 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:40,750 actual investigator has I'd been a real 313 00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:44,110 a real detective with the world's oldest 314 00:14:49,889 --> 00:14:46,959 and largest private detective agency and 315 00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:49,899 serious investigator and I love that 316 00:14:54,319 --> 00:14:51,910 term I thought it was an honor to be a 317 00:14:56,639 --> 00:14:54,329 private investigator or a paranormal 318 00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:56,649 investigative investigator historical 319 00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:59,440 investigator yeah but then people 320 00:15:03,389 --> 00:15:01,839 started all over the place started 321 00:15:05,069 --> 00:15:03,399 calling themselves paranormal 322 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:05,079 investigators and what they meant was 323 00:15:10,199 --> 00:15:07,690 they were silly ghost hunters yeah and I 324 00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:10,209 became almost ashamed to use that term 325 00:15:14,670 --> 00:15:12,640 because to the average person when I say 326 00:15:16,590 --> 00:15:14,680 on the paranormal investigator they 327 00:15:18,329 --> 00:15:16,600 think often they're happy to hear the 328 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:18,339 whole your you go into those haunted 329 00:15:23,310 --> 00:15:21,010 houses with the scientific equipment no 330 00:15:27,210 --> 00:15:23,320 no no that's not what I do and that's 331 00:15:29,790 --> 00:15:27,220 not investigation that's that's mystery 332 00:15:31,769 --> 00:15:29,800 mongering and something else 333 00:15:35,250 --> 00:15:31,779 and but it's not investigation that's 334 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:35,260 not what a detective does yeah so but 335 00:15:38,490 --> 00:15:37,330 thank you if you say I'm a paranormal 336 00:15:41,220 --> 00:15:38,500 investigator what extraordinary 337 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:41,230 extraordinary well there you go I love 338 00:15:46,170 --> 00:15:43,450 that I love that we'll have to use that 339 00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:46,180 on the book jacket or something so in 340 00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:50,230 your new book Joe tracking the the 341 00:15:54,750 --> 00:15:53,260 man-beast you open up by disqus talking 342 00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:54,760 about what is a monster so what is a 343 00:16:00,329 --> 00:15:57,040 monster how do you describe a monster a 344 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:00,339 monster is usually something awesome 345 00:16:07,949 --> 00:16:03,130 something either in size or fearfulness 346 00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:07,959 that's that's awesome and you usually 347 00:16:14,730 --> 00:16:10,990 some aspect of fearfulness so so boogie 348 00:16:19,230 --> 00:16:14,740 men are typically monsters anything 349 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:19,240 that's that's different from the normal 350 00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:24,130 with humans in an earlier time humans 351 00:16:29,190 --> 00:16:26,440 who are different human oddities that 352 00:16:33,930 --> 00:16:29,200 the carnies used to inappropriately call 353 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:33,940 freaks would be considered monstrosities 354 00:16:39,090 --> 00:16:36,970 so Siamese twins or even Giants are 355 00:16:43,230 --> 00:16:39,100 dwarfs even dwarfs would be called 356 00:16:45,420 --> 00:16:43,240 monsters the Giants at least are large 357 00:16:50,699 --> 00:16:45,430 so they they they got a double whammy 358 00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:50,709 there but anything like that on the one 359 00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:54,880 hand i use the term monster and man 360 00:17:03,240 --> 00:16:58,570 beast is a type of monster in the book 361 00:17:05,340 --> 00:17:03,250 typically anything including such people 362 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:05,350 as Jack the Ripper or Jeffrey Dahmer I 363 00:17:09,059 --> 00:17:06,910 don't spend time on it but I mentioned 364 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:09,069 them they're not paranormal claimants 365 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:11,290 but they're certainly we call them 366 00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:15,250 monsters they're people who act in a 367 00:17:19,610 --> 00:17:17,040 monstrous way 368 00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:19,620 an evil way and I use the term 369 00:17:26,180 --> 00:17:22,860 man-beasts to mean anything and I use 370 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:26,190 the term as broadly as I can and trying 371 00:17:32,090 --> 00:17:29,130 to be as inclusive in this book as I can 372 00:17:35,470 --> 00:17:32,100 be not not real narrow and real specific 373 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:35,480 so anything from the human monstrosity 374 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:40,130 to some kind of human hybrid like a 375 00:17:50,810 --> 00:17:45,210 merman or woman or maid and a half man 376 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:50,820 half whatever spinks center or some kind 377 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:54,330 of hybrid or pre-human or advanced human 378 00:18:02,300 --> 00:17:58,050 so I use so I see Bigfoot as sort of our 379 00:18:04,460 --> 00:18:02,310 stupid cousin from the past throwback is 380 00:18:09,230 --> 00:18:04,470 maybe the very symbol of the endangered 381 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:09,240 species the extra-terrestrial of the 382 00:18:12,740 --> 00:18:10,890 humanoid type there are different types 383 00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:12,750 extraterrestrials but the the one that's 384 00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,140 one out the popular one that's in all 385 00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,240 the toy stores is the humanoid the 386 00:18:23,180 --> 00:18:20,160 little big eyed big-headed humanoid and 387 00:18:25,540 --> 00:18:23,190 that's a futuristic version of us come 388 00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:25,550 back in time to save the planet Earth 389 00:18:35,620 --> 00:18:29,790 and I guess vampires are us with an 390 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:35,630 attitude so all these all these kinds of 391 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:41,970 human-like beings that in some ways fit 392 00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:45,120 some definition of monster that call man 393 00:18:51,620 --> 00:18:48,480 beasts and I round him up yeah I track 394 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:51,630 him down last so um and haul him into my 395 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:53,730 book and then I had a great time doing 396 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:55,530 all that well you do and I mean you 397 00:18:59,780 --> 00:18:56,970 actually go and investigate them I mean 398 00:19:01,580 --> 00:18:59,790 there is you do cover the Yowie in part 399 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:01,590 of your book which Australian listeners 400 00:19:06,610 --> 00:19:03,930 would know well but internationalists 401 00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:06,620 aren't so familiar with the Yowie is 402 00:19:10,910 --> 00:19:09,600 Australia's version of Bigfoot basically 403 00:19:12,860 --> 00:19:10,920 there are there different ones around 404 00:19:15,010 --> 00:19:12,870 the world in China they have the Aaron 405 00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:15,020 these hairy men be 406 00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,230 our very common around the world which 407 00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:20,480 believers say therefore they must be 408 00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:22,670 real because alkyd all these countries 409 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:25,520 have done that they were but but in fact 410 00:19:30,730 --> 00:19:27,890 from an evolutionary sense these are all 411 00:19:32,890 --> 00:19:30,740 unlikely and we could understand how 412 00:19:36,130 --> 00:19:32,900 they might have developed independently 413 00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:36,140 or even developed rather late and cross 414 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:38,390 pollinated I think the American 415 00:19:43,690 --> 00:19:41,090 sasquatches influenced heavily by the mo 416 00:19:45,030 --> 00:19:43,700 Lian Yeti in the 50s and the men's 417 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:45,040 magazines there were all these 418 00:19:50,290 --> 00:19:47,810 abominable snowmen stories and our our 419 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:50,300 Bigfoot began to take on some of those 420 00:19:58,420 --> 00:19:54,650 features so these are all cultural their 421 00:20:01,360 --> 00:19:58,430 their cultural aspects that that make it 422 00:20:03,310 --> 00:20:01,370 interesting and there's also this the 423 00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:03,320 idea which I explore a lot in the book 424 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:06,260 of mythology true mythologies we're 425 00:20:12,010 --> 00:20:08,930 watching these myths actually develop in 426 00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:12,020 our time we think the average person 427 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:14,660 thinks of men the ancient Greeks and 428 00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:17,210 Romans had these mythical beings we 429 00:20:21,970 --> 00:20:18,950 don't have that anymore no we do we have 430 00:20:25,290 --> 00:20:21,980 Bigfoot in any tea absolutely we do and 431 00:20:27,910 --> 00:20:25,300 they're they're super i define them 432 00:20:30,370 --> 00:20:27,920 pretty much as super normal beings 433 00:20:32,890 --> 00:20:30,380 interacting with humans in ways that are 434 00:20:35,410 --> 00:20:32,900 cosmically important right and that's 435 00:20:37,420 --> 00:20:35,420 that's Bigfoot that's et there in 436 00:20:40,150 --> 00:20:37,430 messages for the planet earth there 437 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:40,160 there there's very important and that's 438 00:20:44,340 --> 00:20:42,650 going on right now we can watch that 439 00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:44,350 that's fascinating 440 00:20:49,980 --> 00:20:47,200 and worth the effort of the noble 441 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:49,990 investigator like myself maybe I'm not 442 00:20:55,140 --> 00:20:51,850 going to find Bigfoot but I find a 443 00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:55,150 Bigfoot phenomenon it's very real and 444 00:20:59,580 --> 00:20:56,950 it's important to us it's important to 445 00:21:00,930 --> 00:20:59,590 study tells us about ourselves so can 446 00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:00,940 you tell us about any of the sightings 447 00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:03,280 of the Yowie what what if people seen 448 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:04,990 and what do they describe because we 449 00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:06,730 also have a Bunyip in Australian I think 450 00:21:13,650 --> 00:21:09,190 that's a similar species I don't know if 451 00:21:17,370 --> 00:21:13,660 it's different or not the the yaoi is is 452 00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:17,380 a hairy man beast you'll see reports 453 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:21,510 come a lot from the Blue Mountains and I 454 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:24,970 went out on a day's excursion obviously 455 00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:28,450 that's not enough okay you know it's not 456 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:30,880 much more maybe than a photo op but i 457 00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:33,850 but I did enjoy being out in that 458 00:21:39,539 --> 00:21:37,030 wonderful scenic remote region and 459 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:39,549 talking to some people parks people and 460 00:21:45,899 --> 00:21:41,710 others about what they thought I ran 461 00:21:50,010 --> 00:21:45,909 into lots of skeptics but it's it's a a 462 00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:50,020 hairy man-like creature it has the same 463 00:21:55,799 --> 00:21:53,200 basic kinds of evidence as the American 464 00:21:58,799 --> 00:21:55,809 Bigfoot that is their tracks their 465 00:22:00,930 --> 00:21:58,809 sightings and so forth everything except 466 00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:00,940 what we really really need right I have 467 00:22:09,899 --> 00:22:05,760 DNA Oh like the you Eric power for but 468 00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:09,909 so it's very popular and and it has 469 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:12,549 these interesting cultural aspects for 470 00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:15,090 example i was able to buy while i was in 471 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:17,679 australia i was able to buy some yaoi 472 00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:20,890 candies made by Cadbury yes these are 473 00:22:27,450 --> 00:22:22,960 little they they didn't look at anything 474 00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:27,460 like the real what a real yaoi but but 475 00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:29,110 there there are sort of cartoon 476 00:22:35,499 --> 00:22:33,440 affection a little little little being 477 00:22:39,269 --> 00:22:35,509 and we with the Americans to do that as 478 00:22:41,889 --> 00:22:39,279 well with Bigfoot these creatures I I 479 00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:41,899 studied in tracking the man-beast i 480 00:22:47,259 --> 00:22:45,350 looked at actually tracked Bigfoot get 481 00:22:50,860 --> 00:22:47,269 it from from way back in american 482 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:50,870 history and over the years to show how 483 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:52,730 it was changing and morphing in 484 00:22:56,259 --> 00:22:55,129 developing and involving and so forth we 485 00:22:58,869 --> 00:22:56,269 just which is where it gets really 486 00:23:00,879 --> 00:22:58,879 interesting because we're not seeing 487 00:23:02,769 --> 00:23:00,889 just one kind of report and then it 488 00:23:05,649 --> 00:23:02,779 never changes which might be that oh 489 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:05,659 there is something there but we're 490 00:23:11,230 --> 00:23:08,330 seeing it become sort of start out as a 491 00:23:14,499 --> 00:23:11,240 kind of monster kind of an awesome 492 00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:14,509 creature you better be careful of maybe 493 00:23:19,629 --> 00:23:17,750 a terrible dangerous being but 494 00:23:22,269 --> 00:23:19,639 eventually becomes affectionate to be 495 00:23:25,740 --> 00:23:22,279 honest rather cuddly and friendly and 496 00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:25,750 the subject of cartoons & chocolate yeah 497 00:23:32,110 --> 00:23:30,350 exactly yeah the chocolate and I I hope 498 00:23:34,330 --> 00:23:32,120 it's good chocolate I mine were wrapped 499 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:34,340 in foil which had a lot of the colorful 500 00:23:39,009 --> 00:23:36,710 stuff kind of a colorful foil and I 501 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:39,019 saved them they're probably inedible now 502 00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:41,090 but i still have my Yowies there was a 503 00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:42,799 whole family of the different types and 504 00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:45,620 so forth but apparently Cadbury just 505 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:48,289 invented this type of yaoi but but it's 506 00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:51,250 but they're playing off on mythical 507 00:23:58,210 --> 00:23:54,289 beings and who's to say that those 508 00:24:02,499 --> 00:23:58,220 Cadbury Yowies are less real than the 509 00:24:04,269 --> 00:24:02,509 real y le he has to say that not me i'm 510 00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:04,279 interested in the you said you were in 511 00:24:07,509 --> 00:24:05,960 the Blue Mountains when you spoke to 512 00:24:09,580 --> 00:24:07,519 people up there did they mention 513 00:24:11,259 --> 00:24:09,590 anything about the Penrith Panther have 514 00:24:12,730 --> 00:24:11,269 you heard about that apparently the 515 00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:12,740 Panther that roams around the Blue 516 00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:15,200 Mountains area I did not I was not there 517 00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:18,110 long enough to really look at all the 518 00:24:23,379 --> 00:24:20,240 things the only other thing in all of 519 00:24:26,109 --> 00:24:23,389 Australia that I looked at I mean 520 00:24:28,779 --> 00:24:26,119 I travel then on the shipwreck coast to 521 00:24:32,289 --> 00:24:28,789 warrnambool I was in the haunted 522 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:32,299 Melbourne jail we looked on a shipwreck 523 00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:34,369 coast we looked followed the legend of 524 00:24:40,089 --> 00:24:36,950 the mahogany ship which is a great 525 00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:40,099 legend of a shipwreck kids who's really 526 00:24:44,409 --> 00:24:42,289 in sort of appear then get covered over 527 00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:44,419 and say it again or something is quite a 528 00:24:51,339 --> 00:24:48,559 wonderful story the only other cryptid 529 00:24:54,459 --> 00:24:51,349 to use the term cryptozoologists use for 530 00:24:57,459 --> 00:24:54,469 for an unknown or hidden animal was the 531 00:25:01,089 --> 00:24:57,469 thylacine ah tasmanian tiger the 532 00:25:02,949 --> 00:25:01,099 tasmanian tiger which is a very real was 533 00:25:05,379 --> 00:25:02,959 a very real creature no question about 534 00:25:09,879 --> 00:25:05,389 it and I I made it a point to see an 535 00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:09,889 actual one stuffed stuffed one but as 536 00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:11,809 far as I could tell the real the real 537 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:15,609 McCoy and I am convinced that there then 538 00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:20,690 the real one existed the question is how 539 00:25:27,819 --> 00:25:24,200 to explain the sightings today I did not 540 00:25:31,060 --> 00:25:27,829 look deeply into that a lot of my travel 541 00:25:33,009 --> 00:25:31,070 logs which are investigatory I love when 542 00:25:35,889 --> 00:25:33,019 I go to particularly any exotic place 543 00:25:40,060 --> 00:25:35,899 and let me define exotic means outside 544 00:25:42,459 --> 00:25:40,070 Buffalo New York well go to any exotic 545 00:25:46,959 --> 00:25:42,469 place in Australia is certainly then by 546 00:25:49,539 --> 00:25:46,969 that definition very very I'm obviously 547 00:25:52,419 --> 00:25:49,549 not going to be there long enough to 548 00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:52,429 really look into things and the locals 549 00:25:56,769 --> 00:25:53,809 are going to be doing the heavy lifting 550 00:26:00,039 --> 00:25:56,779 but I'm trying to bring back to my 551 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:00,049 readership in skeptical Inquirer and 552 00:26:03,310 --> 00:26:02,570 which otherwise might just become sort 553 00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:03,320 of an American 554 00:26:07,390 --> 00:26:04,880 dezeen and we are an international 555 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:07,400 movement and so when I go to Europe or 556 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:09,170 South America or whatever I'm saying 557 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:10,730 well what are some interesting mystery 558 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:13,370 is there I will do some investigation to 559 00:26:20,020 --> 00:26:16,730 try to give you a first look from my on 560 00:26:23,470 --> 00:26:20,030 the scene sometimes i do do really score 561 00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:23,480 well other than one of my trips when I 562 00:26:29,890 --> 00:26:26,960 was in South America looking at the eko 563 00:26:31,630 --> 00:26:29,900 stones others had written about the 564 00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:31,640 acoustics and they were very good and 565 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:32,990 very skeptical but they had done it from 566 00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:34,970 their computer terminals I on the other 567 00:26:39,550 --> 00:26:37,120 hand actually in the little village I 568 00:26:42,190 --> 00:26:39,560 actually i had to pay some money to get 569 00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:42,200 them to open about sunday for me i got 570 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:44,240 in with a magnifier and i get to 571 00:26:49,950 --> 00:26:46,850 actually actually examine nikka stones 572 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:49,960 and i can say to you with with authority 573 00:26:57,450 --> 00:26:53,090 that those stones had genuine patina of 574 00:27:00,400 --> 00:26:57,460 age they were genuine old rocks bud but 575 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:00,410 the wonderful carvings on them of 576 00:27:07,060 --> 00:27:03,850 dinosaurs and things existing with man 577 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:07,070 had no patina in the in the scratches 578 00:27:11,050 --> 00:27:09,890 the gouges and i can say that having 579 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:11,060 examined it with a powerful 580 00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,410 magnification and so what are the kinds 581 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:17,360 around the 80 Stein's check the Eco 582 00:27:24,910 --> 00:27:22,490 stones were as opposed to Enka it this 583 00:27:28,450 --> 00:27:24,920 is [\h__\h] ica histones Little Billy to 584 00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:28,460 beacon and this this medical doctor got 585 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:30,080 fascinated these and the locals were 586 00:27:33,310 --> 00:27:31,490 bringing them to him and he was paying 587 00:27:36,490 --> 00:27:33,320 for them with a of course we can now see 588 00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:36,500 pretty much he pissed they spotted as an 589 00:27:42,490 --> 00:27:38,360 endless source of money so I'm coming in 590 00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:42,500 my side that's right and they were these 591 00:27:46,930 --> 00:27:45,230 were presumably ancient carvings of so 592 00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:46,940 you know sort of archaeological finds 593 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:48,550 that could be found out 594 00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:50,890 you know Creek banks or somewhere where 595 00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:53,260 they were finding these and they showed 596 00:27:59,010 --> 00:27:55,360 things like the ancient civilizations 597 00:28:01,170 --> 00:27:59,020 having contact with you know writing on 598 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:01,180 the backs of dinosaurs or using 599 00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:03,330 telescopes or that sort of thing 600 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:07,180 fantastic stuff and quite a little 601 00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:09,790 literature about it and been much 602 00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:12,190 written about and I don't fault other 603 00:28:17,790 --> 00:28:15,340 skeptics or not all of us could all the 604 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:17,800 time go somewhere but i was i was able 605 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:20,530 on a bus trip all the way down to see 606 00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:24,310 the giant Nazca lines and flew over 607 00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:26,470 hired a pilot to fly me over the desk 608 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:30,130 guns and I've done some original work on 609 00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:32,650 those showing how they might have been 610 00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,190 made and reproducing giant dusk appears 611 00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:38,080 but I you know I'm looking to see well I 612 00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:41,500 could stop off in eeka yeah and and the 613 00:28:47,010 --> 00:28:44,200 next morning was a Sunday and the nice 614 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:47,020 hotel man called they said no we're not 615 00:28:53,130 --> 00:28:49,810 open and I said it's with the classic 616 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:53,140 life not at any price what if i gave you 617 00:28:56,790 --> 00:28:54,910 a hundred of whatever your local 618 00:28:58,860 --> 00:28:56,800 currencies or something you know oh well 619 00:29:02,190 --> 00:28:58,870 yes sir arrangements couldn't pay and 620 00:29:04,340 --> 00:29:02,200 they had no idea and of course i go i'm 621 00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:04,350 always respectful and 622 00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:06,840 and interested I don't have to feign the 623 00:29:12,020 --> 00:29:10,230 interest really a times that we're all 624 00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:12,030 having a good time but I'm privately 625 00:29:16,580 --> 00:29:14,429 noting hope these are these are modern 626 00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:16,590 fakes aren't they yeah and that I 627 00:29:21,380 --> 00:29:19,320 wouldn't bought it Anika stone in a shop 628 00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:21,390 pulled it out from under the counter 629 00:29:26,299 --> 00:29:24,299 like it was contraband yeah because the 630 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:26,309 antiquities Department frowns on selling 631 00:29:33,289 --> 00:29:29,010 real antiquities so I asked the guy is 632 00:29:34,940 --> 00:29:33,299 that now is this a real lika stone and 633 00:29:39,289 --> 00:29:34,950 he gave me one of those looks that said 634 00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:39,299 oh who knows rolling his eyes so i 635 00:29:45,140 --> 00:29:42,320 bought it i have a really Kostova glass 636 00:29:46,669 --> 00:29:45,150 so another one of the investigations you 637 00:29:50,029 --> 00:29:46,679 did which is in your book as well is the 638 00:29:52,220 --> 00:29:50,039 loup-garou now that's a French legend is 639 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:52,230 that how you pronounce it lougarou yes 640 00:30:01,100 --> 00:29:56,370 the lougarou and that is a team the the 641 00:30:04,159 --> 00:30:01,110 French rule yes yeah oh I do a sort of a 642 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:04,169 funny thing in the book it may look a 643 00:30:08,779 --> 00:30:05,970 little too scholarly in the book to be 644 00:30:12,049 --> 00:30:08,789 quite hahaha but i but I sort of treat 645 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:12,059 it this way I say that the the French 646 00:30:18,940 --> 00:30:17,010 were off the loup-garou and I'm speaking 647 00:30:22,159 --> 00:30:18,950 tongue in cheek when I say this 648 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:22,169 apparently when French explorers came to 649 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:26,210 the Americas this were wolf creature 650 00:30:32,779 --> 00:30:30,210 stowed away hid away on board because it 651 00:30:36,830 --> 00:30:32,789 soon wherever the French settled there 652 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:36,840 was this boogieman Wow and they settled 653 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:38,970 in an area 654 00:30:46,460 --> 00:30:42,450 of of Canada that was known in the olden 655 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:46,470 days as Acadia an area known it would be 656 00:30:53,299 --> 00:30:48,330 today as part of the Maritime Provinces 657 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:53,309 was called a kenyan they were ousted by 658 00:31:00,850 --> 00:30:57,330 the British during during a conflict and 659 00:31:04,669 --> 00:31:00,860 many of them were sent down to Louisiana 660 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:04,679 the word Acadia and acadian got 661 00:31:10,340 --> 00:31:07,650 corrupted to Cajun and so the New 662 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:10,350 Orleans Louisiana Cajuns we all know 663 00:31:14,890 --> 00:31:12,690 Cajun food and Cajun song it's a 664 00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:14,900 wonderful culturally don't you know 665 00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,289 somehow the loup-garou stowed away on 666 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:22,080 board the wagons or something and got 667 00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:23,850 taken down there well I'm saying all 668 00:31:27,380 --> 00:31:25,260 this tongue-in-cheek what in other words 669 00:31:30,350 --> 00:31:27,390 what's happening is that people are 670 00:31:32,779 --> 00:31:30,360 bringing their cultural myths with them 671 00:31:34,850 --> 00:31:32,789 and they're showing up wherever the 672 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:34,860 French settled we have we have their 673 00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:37,770 their creature and I think that's just 674 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:40,230 very very important to realize so that's 675 00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:42,570 what i mean by tracking the mandy's i'm 676 00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:44,640 often trying to follow the neither in 677 00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:47,039 history or culture some way 678 00:31:54,169 --> 00:31:50,720 geographically but i am on their trail 679 00:31:55,490 --> 00:31:54,179 they I'm a suspect they're not real but 680 00:31:57,980 --> 00:31:55,500 they're very real to the people are 681 00:32:01,820 --> 00:31:57,990 traveling and I want to know why that's 682 00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:01,830 important to them what is it about that 683 00:32:06,060 --> 00:32:04,110 creature and of course it's it's largely 684 00:32:10,170 --> 00:32:06,070 a kind of boogie man 685 00:32:12,570 --> 00:32:10,180 and functions in a sort of boogeyman way 686 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:12,580 to frighten the children into not going 687 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:16,090 out into dangerous areas and ya know 688 00:32:19,620 --> 00:32:17,650 that the liquor will get you if you 689 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:19,630 don't yes yeah inerrant yes the sort of 690 00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:21,250 booking that serves some certain 691 00:32:27,540 --> 00:32:24,940 cultural functions that are useful but 692 00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:27,550 in back in France there were creatures 693 00:32:45,769 --> 00:32:37,369 wolf like or thought to be sort of super 694 00:32:47,239 --> 00:32:45,779 large wolves or were wolves and we now 695 00:32:50,810 --> 00:32:47,249 realize that some of these were probably 696 00:32:53,869 --> 00:32:50,820 real wolf killings and probably not one 697 00:32:55,129 --> 00:32:53,879 wolf probably multiple whoops sometimes 698 00:32:58,220 --> 00:32:55,139 during an outbreak there would be a 699 00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,230 hundred wolves killed I tracked one such 700 00:33:03,529 --> 00:33:00,240 story this these were elsewhere in 701 00:33:05,869 --> 00:33:03,539 Europe I tracked one in Austria and I 702 00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:05,879 was able to go to the Lucien castle in 703 00:33:11,220 --> 00:33:07,660 Austria 704 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:11,230 I had a guide Martin miner from the 705 00:33:17,490 --> 00:33:15,250 German skeptics was was taking me about 706 00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:17,500 something I'm lucky to have everywhere I 707 00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:19,630 go I'm able to get assistance of local 708 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:22,480 skeptics it's a wonderful wonderful perk 709 00:33:29,550 --> 00:33:27,610 yeah of the movement so the the this 710 00:33:31,890 --> 00:33:29,560 there was a Khattak this Lucien castle 711 00:33:35,370 --> 00:33:31,900 had a torture chamber this is gets a 712 00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:35,380 little gruesome it is creepy you can see 713 00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:37,510 where these young men two young man had 714 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:40,660 been tortured into confessing that this 715 00:33:46,140 --> 00:33:44,410 wolf outbreak killing livestock was them 716 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:46,150 as were wolves they confessed to this 717 00:33:51,090 --> 00:33:48,730 they were sentenced as galley slaves 718 00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:51,100 that is pretty much a death sentence you 719 00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:54,280 just chained to the boat till you drop 720 00:34:01,070 --> 00:33:58,960 dead from exhaustion or something and so 721 00:34:03,780 --> 00:34:01,080 that's the bad side of the man beasts 722 00:34:06,690 --> 00:34:03,790 but there are plenty of stories in the 723 00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:06,700 book and I hope people have fun with it 724 00:34:10,169 --> 00:34:08,320 well there's just one more i want to 725 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:10,179 discuss before we finish up joe and 726 00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:11,650 that's the flat toward the flatwoods 727 00:34:17,780 --> 00:34:14,800 monster which you did an investigation 728 00:34:20,430 --> 00:34:17,790 of but the people that described it or 729 00:34:24,690 --> 00:34:20,440 cyber saw it described it as a sort of 730 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:24,700 green light and almost like a UFO sort 731 00:34:33,570 --> 00:34:28,570 of alien tied being not not really know 732 00:34:36,690 --> 00:34:33,580 the story began around 1950-51 i forget 733 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:36,700 the exact date but some boys playing on 734 00:34:42,870 --> 00:34:40,510 a ball field saw a UFO we now know what 735 00:34:44,909 --> 00:34:42,880 they saw was a meat-eor we was seen 736 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:44,919 astronomer so I tracked in over three 737 00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:47,530 states so but they they thought it was 738 00:34:51,210 --> 00:34:48,910 you up a light it appeared to land just 739 00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:51,220 up on the hillside meteors often do that 740 00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:53,950 he's got a site far away but it looks 741 00:34:59,730 --> 00:34:56,110 like they were up really close and they 742 00:35:02,400 --> 00:34:59,740 ran up and they they got another couple 743 00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:02,410 of boys and a mother who is a beautician 744 00:35:05,269 --> 00:35:02,880 and the 745 00:35:09,140 --> 00:35:05,279 family dog in this group of unlikely 746 00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:09,150 group all scared that there was some 747 00:35:12,620 --> 00:35:10,710 extraterrestrial something and they had 748 00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:12,630 a flashlight and they shined it back in 749 00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,049 the woods and they later they talked 750 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:18,480 more about a green monster but that was 751 00:35:22,819 --> 00:35:20,490 really a newspaper kind of exaggeration 752 00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:22,829 wasn't that much about the greenness of 753 00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:26,400 it what they saw is that its eyes shone 754 00:35:33,529 --> 00:35:29,400 brightly it's just what we call I shine 755 00:35:35,779 --> 00:35:33,539 they described a creature that glided at 756 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:35,789 the MIT had quote unquote terrible claws 757 00:35:42,589 --> 00:35:39,450 made a high-pitched hissing sound and so 758 00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:42,599 on I have identified that creature is 759 00:35:48,259 --> 00:35:45,089 almost certainly being the common West 760 00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:48,269 Virginia barn owl perched on a limb and 761 00:35:52,370 --> 00:35:50,700 the green part was probably just bushes 762 00:35:53,539 --> 00:35:52,380 underneath and they saw it because it 763 00:35:55,999 --> 00:35:53,549 was up on a limb it looked like it's 764 00:35:58,190 --> 00:35:56,009 very tall creature had these shining 765 00:36:01,700 --> 00:35:58,200 eyes the one of the clues is the 766 00:36:04,970 --> 00:36:01,710 eye-shine that it could could glide the 767 00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:04,980 terrible claws and and the when I first 768 00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:08,460 heard the cry of a barn owl making that 769 00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,529 sound that's very clear so if it looks 770 00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:15,839 like a barn el and acts like a barn 771 00:36:22,099 --> 00:36:18,480 Holland and hisses like a barn owl maybe 772 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:22,109 it's a far no the only the only thing is 773 00:36:26,779 --> 00:36:24,690 that they were they were not clear what 774 00:36:28,569 --> 00:36:26,789 they saw and some of their description 775 00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:28,579 is a little exaggerated so when I 776 00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:29,670 competent 777 00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:31,920 that's what they saw and I think the 778 00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:33,920 evidence shows that that's the best 779 00:36:41,569 --> 00:36:38,880 hypothesis and but but the believers on 780 00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,579 the other side joke about me postulating 781 00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,440 the hitherto unknown species of giant 782 00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:45,599 owl and so forth well let them have 783 00:36:50,890 --> 00:36:48,000 their fun but I think we know what the 784 00:36:53,630 --> 00:36:50,900 flatwoods monster was the inet Hawkman 785 00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:53,640 after that another West Virginia 786 00:37:01,549 --> 00:36:56,880 creature and I first said that it was 787 00:37:03,170 --> 00:37:01,559 another Barnell I later went this let 788 00:37:05,630 --> 00:37:03,180 this be a lesson to me and others 789 00:37:07,609 --> 00:37:05,640 nothing like going on site when I got 790 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:07,619 actual time I made it a point to go 791 00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:10,170 there and I found known as probably a 792 00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:14,160 bar down the crimson red eye shine was 793 00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,900 the barred owl it's bigger than the barn 794 00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:18,240 l and they're all over that place which 795 00:37:23,740 --> 00:37:20,609 is a wildlife preserve and so i 796 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:23,750 postulate now that Mothman was a Bardo 797 00:37:29,569 --> 00:37:27,690 also misjudged esta size because people 798 00:37:31,069 --> 00:37:29,579 were it was nighttime and they saw it 799 00:37:33,559 --> 00:37:31,079 briefly and it frightened them and they 800 00:37:35,329 --> 00:37:33,569 misjudged the distance and so forth so 801 00:37:36,829 --> 00:37:35,339 the green man festival that happens in 802 00:37:39,170 --> 00:37:36,839 west virginia now is is really a 803 00:37:42,349 --> 00:37:39,180 celebration of a barn owl not well i 804 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:42,359 guess i think so they don't invite me to 805 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:44,250 that festive a day although there's 806 00:37:48,020 --> 00:37:46,650 there's a for a long time i'm sure it 807 00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:48,030 still would be the hook could still be 808 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:51,569 the case of a senior citizen in in 809 00:37:56,210 --> 00:37:54,510 flatwoods i used to be able to then did 810 00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:56,220 occasionally i often keep down through 811 00:38:00,079 --> 00:37:58,410 that way to visit relatives and I could 812 00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,089 stop I could just stop in for a sandwich 813 00:38:05,390 --> 00:38:02,400 and had the best time because he was a 814 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:05,400 skeptic in the story I'd put him in my 815 00:38:10,940 --> 00:38:07,890 book and so forth and so so they're not 816 00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:10,950 everyone in flatwoods is is hostile to 817 00:38:16,549 --> 00:38:13,710 me well the book is called tracking the 818 00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:16,559 man beasts and where can our listeners 819 00:38:20,030 --> 00:38:18,480 find out more about all the other work 820 00:38:22,039 --> 00:38:20,040 that you're doing Joe because this is a 821 00:38:25,940 --> 00:38:22,049 very small part of your large 822 00:38:27,359 --> 00:38:25,950 bibliography there is my my website joe 823 00:38:29,730 --> 00:38:27,369 nickell calm 824 00:38:31,259 --> 00:38:29,740 and all of my books are on there all of 825 00:38:33,539 --> 00:38:31,269 my books are still in print all my 826 00:38:35,519 --> 00:38:33,549 serious books you can click on them and 827 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:35,529 it'll take you to a publisher or Amazon 828 00:38:45,329 --> 00:38:40,210 or someone and of course the CSI webs on 829 00:38:47,849 --> 00:38:45,339 website sicom dot org is is a place to 830 00:38:52,109 --> 00:38:47,859 find a lot of my articles the like which 831 00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:52,119 I don't put on my website and i have a 832 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:55,599 blog and i have facebook page people are 833 00:39:00,329 --> 00:38:57,490 astonished because they know i don't use 834 00:39:02,220 --> 00:39:00,339 i'ma Luddite I don't have computers but 835 00:39:04,829 --> 00:39:02,230 I fortunately have people who help me 836 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:04,839 with these things I'm very fortunate to 837 00:39:12,089 --> 00:39:08,410 be able to indulge some of my interests 838 00:39:13,950 --> 00:39:12,099 and have helped in this great skeptical 839 00:39:15,420 --> 00:39:13,960 movement that we have well thanks very 840 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:15,430 much for talking to us today Joe and 841 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:36,630 hi this is scary papi i am ross Blocher 842 00:39:42,570 --> 00:39:39,130 okay Ross hey we're from a podcast 843 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:42,580 called oh no roster kerry we find out 844 00:39:45,690 --> 00:39:44,290 what happens when you show up and ask 845 00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:45,700 questions we've hung out with the 846 00:39:50,490 --> 00:39:47,950 Cabalists the Mormons we've gone and 847 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:50,500 gotten ear candle gone to the Sikhs we 848 00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:52,930 show up so you don't have to so find out 849 00:39:56,670 --> 00:39:54,580 where we're going next we'll even have 850 00:39:59,070 --> 00:39:56,680 special episodes where we have famous 851 00:40:01,080 --> 00:39:59,080 guests like Brian Dalton from mr. deity 852 00:40:03,090 --> 00:40:01,090 you heard that awesome theme music he 853 00:40:07,260 --> 00:40:03,100 wrote that you should come visit us at 854 00:40:10,050 --> 00:40:07,270 Oh No podcast.com or facebook.com slash 855 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:10,060 on rack what the hell's honor a cross Oh 856 00:40:20,270 --> 00:40:14,170 in RAC oh oh no Ross and Carrie that's 857 00:40:28,620 --> 00:40:25,250 here's my not spooky action at the 858 00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:31,390 well i'm standing outside a large 859 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:35,359 inflatable colon here at the mother 860 00:40:38,650 --> 00:40:37,130 hospital with Tracy I Tracy how are you 861 00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:38,660 good thank you may not now this is the 862 00:40:44,140 --> 00:40:41,200 big lebowski I believe it's known as 863 00:40:46,660 --> 00:40:44,150 it's more than big it's it's huge it's 864 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:46,670 six point seven meters long by 3.2 865 00:40:50,890 --> 00:40:48,410 meters wide so is that the full length 866 00:40:53,079 --> 00:40:50,900 of the bowel or is it a semicolon it's a 867 00:40:54,820 --> 00:40:53,089 semicolon right ok well let they were 868 00:40:57,250 --> 00:40:54,830 walking into it here now that the noise 869 00:40:59,710 --> 00:40:57,260 you can hear is that it's a continually 870 00:41:03,849 --> 00:40:59,720 pressurize it's like a it's a big bow 871 00:41:05,859 --> 00:41:03,859 shaped jumping castle it's not really a 872 00:41:08,140 --> 00:41:05,869 jumping castle its Lauren educational 873 00:41:10,089 --> 00:41:08,150 tool okay well it is inflated you could 874 00:41:11,230 --> 00:41:10,099 soon the free here and now do you get 875 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:11,240 problems with little kids running 876 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:13,250 through here willing to muck around no 877 00:41:17,710 --> 00:41:15,530 not so far and don't you encourage the 878 00:41:19,420 --> 00:41:17,720 main art no no I wouldn't dare now I 879 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:19,430 believe this the beginning section we're 880 00:41:24,430 --> 00:41:21,530 going through it in a storyteller it's 881 00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:24,440 the story of the of the intestine lower 882 00:41:28,990 --> 00:41:26,390 intestine and we're looking at some 883 00:41:31,180 --> 00:41:29,000 lovely red normal bowel here and this is 884 00:41:32,980 --> 00:41:31,190 what a normal bowel should look like and 885 00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:32,990 as we move through their got various 886 00:41:36,310 --> 00:41:34,700 versions in doubt there's a few there's 887 00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:36,320 a few tour groups in front of us now 888 00:41:39,970 --> 00:41:38,000 have you had busloads of people coming 889 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:39,980 to see the big bowel here at the matter 890 00:41:43,540 --> 00:41:41,930 no but bus loads are welcome now 891 00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:43,550 unfortunately you were not able to get 892 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:45,470 it for bowel cancer awareness week 893 00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:47,690 because it was a very popular bowel is 894 00:41:51,579 --> 00:41:49,040 this the uninflated will bail in the 895 00:41:52,930 --> 00:41:51,589 country it is i believe i think because 896 00:41:55,340 --> 00:41:52,940 this one is actually going to western 897 00:41:59,360 --> 00:41:55,350 australia in two weeks time Wow 898 00:42:01,700 --> 00:41:59,370 cross-continental Collins so someone 899 00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:01,710 like in my age group a male in their 900 00:42:06,290 --> 00:42:04,560 late 40s am I more likely to kill over 901 00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:06,300 from a heart attack yet this sort of 902 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:08,070 cancer or get killed in the car accident 903 00:42:12,530 --> 00:42:10,890 to develop our cancer dying from bowel 904 00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:12,540 cancer is more common than death I'm 905 00:42:17,570 --> 00:42:15,180 dying in a car accident but if caught 906 00:42:18,770 --> 00:42:17,580 early it's highly curable as I said 907 00:42:19,970 --> 00:42:18,780 there's a tour group interview wouldn't 908 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:19,980 think that you'd you'd have to wait 909 00:42:23,210 --> 00:42:21,810 inside a bow but you've got to sort of 910 00:42:24,830 --> 00:42:23,220 hold and we're waving to people outside 911 00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:24,840 the bow and now what do you think of the 912 00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:26,280 big bowel here at the martyr oh it's 913 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:28,560 great wonderful it's pretty impressive 914 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:30,090 do you know that this is the only one in 915 00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:31,410 Australia and they're sending it to 916 00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:33,240 Western Australia wow that's great very 917 00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:36,600 spongy so you're impressing the public 918 00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:38,910 and every turn with this ok now we've 919 00:42:42,380 --> 00:42:40,230 come though we've seen the normal bowel 920 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:42,390 which is kind of nice and I'm glad this 921 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:44,010 isn't in smeller armor either by the way 922 00:42:49,310 --> 00:42:46,530 hold up now we're looking at colitis 923 00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:49,320 here now this is a this can be a 924 00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:51,960 relatively minor condition carbon it can 925 00:42:57,230 --> 00:42:53,910 be minded but it's still be debilitating 926 00:43:00,110 --> 00:42:57,240 it can cause a people a lot of pain 927 00:43:02,420 --> 00:43:00,120 bleeding and also it can increase their 928 00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:02,430 their chances of developing bowel cancer 929 00:43:07,580 --> 00:43:05,070 one of these love these it's um what are 930 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:07,590 these on the wall I'm playing the one of 931 00:43:12,830 --> 00:43:10,170 these are pockets of bow that have that 932 00:43:15,380 --> 00:43:12,840 have protruded through the bow so their 933 00:43:17,359 --> 00:43:15,390 bigs are bow that have protrude it out 934 00:43:18,799 --> 00:43:17,369 now is that something that we should be 935 00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:18,809 corrected with surgery or can we take a 936 00:43:23,450 --> 00:43:21,359 certain amount of that sometimes people 937 00:43:25,819 --> 00:43:23,460 with chronic colitis they do have to 938 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:25,829 have surgery because it does cause major 939 00:43:31,069 --> 00:43:29,130 symptoms so yes some people do require 940 00:43:33,410 --> 00:43:31,079 hemic 11 can we collecting these because 941 00:43:35,089 --> 00:43:33,420 of this disease there's even more people 942 00:43:37,339 --> 00:43:35,099 in here right now I'd say the bowel is 943 00:43:39,490 --> 00:43:37,349 probably a full occupancy about a dozen 944 00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:39,500 people will just have to wait a moment 945 00:43:43,460 --> 00:43:42,000 well we've just moved past the colitis 946 00:43:46,099 --> 00:43:43,470 and we're into the middle of the bowel 947 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:46,109 here and it's interesting I hit a few 948 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:47,730 older people can come along and they can 949 00:43:50,569 --> 00:43:49,410 talk about bowel health all day account 950 00:43:51,769 --> 00:43:50,579 they there's some people that will just 951 00:43:53,509 --> 00:43:51,779 they just love talking about it 952 00:43:55,730 --> 00:43:53,519 absolutely the older generation 953 00:43:56,990 --> 00:43:55,740 definitely are more open to talking 954 00:44:01,609 --> 00:43:57,000 about it do you think they said they 955 00:44:04,579 --> 00:44:01,619 should maybe get out more no you're 956 00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:04,589 checking minor I've had conversations 957 00:44:07,789 --> 00:44:06,480 with older people and the first thing 958 00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:07,799 they'll tell you about when you make 959 00:44:10,970 --> 00:44:09,359 them is all about them they've been 960 00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:10,980 other power problems and their surgery 961 00:44:14,059 --> 00:44:12,660 problems and that kind of thing and you 962 00:44:15,620 --> 00:44:14,069 think that's a healthy thing an 963 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:15,630 obsession with your body like that I 964 00:44:19,970 --> 00:44:18,210 have found some older people that yes 965 00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:19,980 are more are very focused on their 966 00:44:24,859 --> 00:44:22,230 health and that's because as we age we 967 00:44:27,529 --> 00:44:24,869 are prone to develop more disorders and 968 00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:27,539 I guess so far I've been lucky and 969 00:44:30,859 --> 00:44:29,609 probably you have is the I've been 970 00:44:33,259 --> 00:44:30,869 tested yet because my dad's been 971 00:44:35,539 --> 00:44:33,269 pestering me and pestering me and for me 972 00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:35,549 this is something you do after 50 no 973 00:44:40,220 --> 00:44:38,190 definitely not we're in the last in the 974 00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:40,230 last four years we've seen an increase 975 00:44:44,569 --> 00:44:42,900 in people aged between 20 and 40 976 00:44:47,059 --> 00:44:44,579 sixty-seven percent increase in people 977 00:44:48,589 --> 00:44:47,069 developing bowel cancer we're seeing so 978 00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,599 many more young people come through the 979 00:44:53,539 --> 00:44:50,400 Calvary Mater Hospital requiring 980 00:44:55,370 --> 00:44:53,549 chemotherapy and radiotherapy so really 981 00:44:58,220 --> 00:44:55,380 from the age of 40 we should be screened 982 00:44:59,749 --> 00:44:58,230 every two years and I'm disgusted in you 983 00:45:02,089 --> 00:44:59,759 Maynard that you haven't been screened 984 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:02,099 and I'm what I'll be watching you by 985 00:45:05,870 --> 00:45:04,650 your bow kick today from rotary for six 986 00:45:07,310 --> 00:45:05,880 dollars right now 987 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:07,320 was all the fun all the money goes to 988 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:09,090 rotary doesn't it does there's no money 989 00:45:15,730 --> 00:45:11,970 to be made that includes the testing 990 00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:15,740 perhaps I believe do that free of charge 991 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:17,760 statistically the more tests to have the 992 00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:18,930 more things are going to be found wrong 993 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:22,260 with you that's true we do pick up 994 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:24,330 things into the coincident Lee because 995 00:45:29,090 --> 00:45:27,090 gp's are very thorough and do tests 996 00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:29,100 unnecessarily and then you have to go 997 00:45:32,690 --> 00:45:30,960 along and get the to put up your bomb 998 00:45:34,940 --> 00:45:32,700 and you get inflated and you've gotta 999 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:34,950 poop see the actual test itself isn't 1000 00:45:38,570 --> 00:45:37,050 too bad it's the three days of diarrhea 1001 00:45:40,310 --> 00:45:38,580 beforehand before you go for the test 1002 00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:40,320 that i really don't know if i've got 1003 00:45:43,790 --> 00:45:42,390 time for because you can't make any 1004 00:45:44,930 --> 00:45:43,800 plans you're not going anywhere when 1005 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:44,940 you're drinking that stuff before you go 1006 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:46,530 for a bail test well maynard you only 1007 00:45:51,290 --> 00:45:48,930 drink that stuff the day before i have 1008 00:45:54,140 --> 00:45:51,300 experienced firsthand a colonoscopy i 1009 00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:54,150 was sedated i felt no pain I felt no 1010 00:45:58,700 --> 00:45:56,400 embarrassment I did have some bleeding 1011 00:46:00,350 --> 00:45:58,710 and i was concerned and I was lucky that 1012 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:00,360 I had an internal hemorrhoid that I'd 1013 00:46:06,770 --> 00:46:03,930 had no idea about so for peace of mind 1014 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:06,780 it was really it was really worth it and 1015 00:46:10,130 --> 00:46:09,090 it was one day only about Fred well I'd 1016 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:10,140 see what being in the middle of this 1017 00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:11,730 inflatable balance seeing all the things 1018 00:46:15,830 --> 00:46:13,500 that can go wrong it's a fairly 1019 00:46:17,650 --> 00:46:15,840 frightening now polyps now this would be 1020 00:46:20,660 --> 00:46:17,660 would this be the most common form of 1021 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:20,670 just of disease people that have inside 1022 00:46:24,830 --> 00:46:22,410 them because again these can be a fairly 1023 00:46:26,650 --> 00:46:24,840 minor thing at first I wouldn't say it's 1024 00:46:29,420 --> 00:46:26,660 the most common i'd say probably 1025 00:46:32,990 --> 00:46:29,430 diverticulitis irritable bowel but 1026 00:46:35,060 --> 00:46:33,000 polyps ninety percent of polyps 92 sorry 1027 00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:35,070 ninety percent of cancers are formed 1028 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:36,960 from polyps not all polyps become 1029 00:46:42,109 --> 00:46:39,330 cancerous so if they're caught early 1030 00:46:45,009 --> 00:46:42,119 definitely it can prevent a bowel cancer 1031 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:45,019 Wow the polyps are than they look again 1032 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:47,490 so they're nasty little buggers this I'm 1033 00:46:52,910 --> 00:46:49,970 focusing now now now we have the actual 1034 00:46:55,039 --> 00:46:52,920 this is the big one here which is colon 1035 00:46:56,930 --> 00:46:55,049 cancer in its beginning form is this it 1036 00:46:59,150 --> 00:46:56,940 here now yeah now it's slightly bigger 1037 00:47:01,009 --> 00:46:59,160 than a polyp it is just starting to 1038 00:47:03,319 --> 00:47:01,019 develop into a cancer here so this is 1039 00:47:05,329 --> 00:47:03,329 early stage bowel cancer this is a 1040 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:05,339 little bit more advanced but if caught 1041 00:47:09,620 --> 00:47:07,170 it at the early stage may not it's still 1042 00:47:11,089 --> 00:47:09,630 highly curable right because you can 1043 00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:11,099 remove sections of the bow yes 1044 00:47:15,950 --> 00:47:13,680 definitely and also at this point a 1045 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:15,960 person wouldn't require any chemotherapy 1046 00:47:20,029 --> 00:47:18,690 but when it becomes more advanced which 1047 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:20,039 we have on the other side here this is a 1048 00:47:28,249 --> 00:47:24,210 massive advanced colon cancer well now 1049 00:47:30,019 --> 00:47:28,259 I'm are you going to die from this it 1050 00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:30,029 all depends how advanced it is if it's 1051 00:47:33,319 --> 00:47:31,710 just localized to the bell and it's gone 1052 00:47:35,269 --> 00:47:33,329 through the bowel wall and it hasn't 1053 00:47:38,690 --> 00:47:35,279 progressed to lymph nodes or any distant 1054 00:47:41,390 --> 00:47:38,700 organs then it's still curable however 1055 00:47:44,450 --> 00:47:41,400 your chances of surviving a less so the 1056 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:44,460 idea is to catch it earlier well this is 1057 00:47:47,989 --> 00:47:46,650 a very uplifting program you've got here 1058 00:47:51,099 --> 00:47:47,999 but I got to say I'm leaving the 1059 00:47:54,289 --> 00:47:51,109 inflatable kool on incredibly depressed 1060 00:47:55,489 --> 00:47:54,299 why is that may not well I just look at 1061 00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:55,499 that and go well there's no future 1062 00:48:00,140 --> 00:47:57,210 there's no hope for me really basically 1063 00:48:01,819 --> 00:48:00,150 um I ya dig it's very depressing 1064 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:01,829 whenever I go to these never i go to 1065 00:48:04,759 --> 00:48:03,210 anything I think I'll right I'm going to 1066 00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:04,769 get that and die and basically that's 1067 00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:05,910 the way I'm thinking after I've been 1068 00:48:10,130 --> 00:48:07,920 through there it's a not very uplifting 1069 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:10,140 I it's a great health initiative but 1070 00:48:15,620 --> 00:48:12,690 personally it's really depressing well 1071 00:48:18,259 --> 00:48:15,630 may not there's doctors around we can 1072 00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:18,269 get you a scrip for valium we can also 1073 00:48:22,579 --> 00:48:21,119 get you a bowel screening kit today so 1074 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:22,589 that you can be tested and reassured 1075 00:48:25,970 --> 00:48:23,970 that you'll never develop this hip 1076 00:48:27,620 --> 00:48:25,980 insidious disease oh yeah but can you 1077 00:48:29,329 --> 00:48:27,630 say the same thing about stroke car 1078 00:48:32,509 --> 00:48:29,339 accident heart attack or any other form 1079 00:48:34,729 --> 00:48:32,519 of cancer no I can't but I should send 1080 00:48:36,019 --> 00:48:34,739 you to a therapist yeah I think it's 1081 00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:36,029 psychological I think I'm in the wrong 1082 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:38,609 wing here but what you are encouraging 1083 00:48:41,539 --> 00:48:39,930 people to come along here and get 1084 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:41,549 excited about this even though it 1085 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:42,690 doesn't seem like it's a thing you can 1086 00:48:46,279 --> 00:48:44,730 get excited about you can leave here and 1087 00:48:47,259 --> 00:48:46,289 get yourself a test just from this desk 1088 00:48:48,759 --> 00:48:47,269 over here abs 1089 00:48:51,189 --> 00:48:48,769 lutely and that's what we're here for 1090 00:48:53,439 --> 00:48:51,199 promoting bowel cancer awareness we're 1091 00:48:54,999 --> 00:48:53,449 not trying to frighten people we try and 1092 00:48:56,409 --> 00:48:55,009 can look at this older people in there 1093 00:48:58,899 --> 00:48:56,419 having a great discussion about their 1094 00:49:00,809 --> 00:48:58,909 bowel and that's what we're here for 1095 00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:00,819 we're here from that promote discussion 1096 00:49:05,380 --> 00:49:03,169 well the look that's quite as again it's 1097 00:49:07,029 --> 00:49:05,390 full anytime you walk past the giant 1098 00:49:09,549 --> 00:49:07,039 Bell here in the mat martyr you'll find 1099 00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:09,559 there's at least 12 people in there it's 1100 00:49:12,489 --> 00:49:11,119 one of the most exciting things that's 1101 00:49:14,319 --> 00:49:12,499 happened for the Calvary mater hospital 1102 00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:14,329 we've got big dog coming along tomorrow 1103 00:49:18,999 --> 00:49:16,609 so big dogs going to be inside the colon 1104 00:49:21,039 --> 00:49:19,009 he will be I hope that he fits wow 1105 00:49:22,659 --> 00:49:21,049 that's great so you can get the the 1106 00:49:24,039 --> 00:49:22,669 mines wombat as well to come along 1107 00:49:25,569 --> 00:49:24,049 because he's a kind of cool figure 2 I 1108 00:49:27,789 --> 00:49:25,579 like him it's a takeaway message for 1109 00:49:29,049 --> 00:49:27,799 people then tracing from the age of 40 1110 00:49:31,329 --> 00:49:29,059 you should be screened every two years 1111 00:49:33,999 --> 00:49:31,339 if you have symptoms longer than five 1112 00:49:36,519 --> 00:49:34,009 weeks of alternating bowel habits please 1113 00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:36,529 see your GP and please be screened for 1114 00:49:54,190 --> 00:49:52,359 hey guys this is jay from the skeptics 1115 00:49:56,980 --> 00:49:54,200 guide to the universe or well hold on 1116 00:49:58,750 --> 00:49:56,990 whoa everybody knows I'm the only reason 1117 00:49:59,920 --> 00:49:58,760 to listen to the freakshow right I mean 1118 00:50:06,670 --> 00:49:59,930 if it was up to me the show would start 1119 00:50:08,589 --> 00:50:06,680 with this yeah boy well Rebecca would 1120 00:50:10,300 --> 00:50:08,599 hate that probably but I mean I'd rock 1121 00:50:11,319 --> 00:50:10,310 that listen to our show and you can 1122 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:11,329 learn about cool stuff like a 1123 00:50:14,770 --> 00:50:13,010 technological singularity which is 1124 00:50:16,270 --> 00:50:14,780 someday when technology progresses so 1125 00:50:17,650 --> 00:50:16,280 fast that it would make the Industrial 1126 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:17,660 Revolution look like a kid science 1127 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:20,690 project anyway come check us out at WWDC 1128 00:50:42,940 --> 00:50:40,010 epic sea org and get your son it'll take 1129 00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:42,950 this with a grain of salt he's around 1130 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:50,960 ticket i'm here with Leo egg way who's 1131 00:50:58,690 --> 00:50:55,210 the biggest of Australian skeptics and 1132 00:51:02,980 --> 00:50:58,700 National Science Week in Australia we 1133 00:51:05,980 --> 00:51:02,990 are here perched in sugarloaf reserve in 1134 00:51:08,290 --> 00:51:05,990 Sydney about 70 metres above the water 1135 00:51:10,170 --> 00:51:08,300 and we're sitting here waiting for the 1136 00:51:12,550 --> 00:51:10,180 birds to start coming home to roost 1137 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:12,560 because it's quite a display of feathers 1138 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:15,290 when they do so we thought we might use 1139 00:51:21,609 --> 00:51:17,410 the time to have a bit of a chat about 1140 00:51:23,170 --> 00:51:21,619 Leos activities in in Africa so first of 1141 00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:23,180 all welcome to Australia and welcome to 1142 00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:26,510 Sidney thank you so much now Leo you are 1143 00:51:32,829 --> 00:51:30,079 the representative of the International 1144 00:51:34,599 --> 00:51:32,839 him Lisa litical you live in in Africa 1145 00:51:36,460 --> 00:51:34,609 you're actually employed by the Union 1146 00:51:39,099 --> 00:51:36,470 yes and can you tell me a little bit 1147 00:51:42,030 --> 00:51:39,109 about the activities of the Union well 1148 00:51:45,339 --> 00:51:42,040 are the union is a global organization 1149 00:51:48,339 --> 00:51:45,349 it has member groups petrol in other 1150 00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:48,349 continents and it has also do video 1151 00:51:55,150 --> 00:51:52,310 supporters and the member groups they 1152 00:51:59,589 --> 00:51:55,160 include the skeptic humanist rationalist 1153 00:52:00,539 --> 00:51:59,599 Fe some fritos groups so I just came 1154 00:52:06,269 --> 00:52:00,549 back from the 1155 00:52:07,769 --> 00:52:06,279 oslo congress of the HEU and just like a 1156 00:52:10,349 --> 00:52:07,779 taqueria congress it was also an 1157 00:52:13,289 --> 00:52:10,359 opportunity to get humans from around 1158 00:52:16,769 --> 00:52:13,299 the world to understand the struggles 1159 00:52:18,989 --> 00:52:16,779 the challenges we are facing in Africa 1160 00:52:21,299 --> 00:52:18,999 and around envelope now you've been 1161 00:52:23,549 --> 00:52:21,309 writing for the skeptic magazine in the 1162 00:52:26,279 --> 00:52:23,559 Australian the skeptic magazine for for 1163 00:52:27,870 --> 00:52:26,289 several years and yeah one thing I 1164 00:52:29,669 --> 00:52:27,880 noticed in your articles is that it 1165 00:52:33,419 --> 00:52:29,679 looks like Africa has its own very 1166 00:52:35,219 --> 00:52:33,429 unique challenges in terms of the values 1167 00:52:36,959 --> 00:52:35,229 of humanism and critical thinking there 1168 00:52:39,959 --> 00:52:36,969 are could you describe some of these 1169 00:52:41,999 --> 00:52:39,969 challenges well yeah the challenges I 1170 00:52:44,130 --> 00:52:42,009 annamma sunday i would like to give you 1171 00:52:47,069 --> 00:52:44,140 some kind of our like who put it in a 1172 00:52:49,650 --> 00:52:47,079 historical context and listens that 1173 00:52:56,929 --> 00:52:49,660 Africa has this history of colonialism 1174 00:52:59,400 --> 00:52:56,939 and then so a very long time African sir 1175 00:53:01,829 --> 00:52:59,410 we are blaming a nasty blaming their 1176 00:53:03,929 --> 00:53:01,839 problems and colonialism each time 1177 00:53:07,589 --> 00:53:03,939 there's a a challenge politically 1178 00:53:10,019 --> 00:53:07,599 socially challenged to try to say oh it 1179 00:53:12,919 --> 00:53:10,029 was the colonialists that created 1180 00:53:15,359 --> 00:53:12,929 problems and all that so of course the 1181 00:53:16,769 --> 00:53:15,369 most African countries which are all of 1182 00:53:19,620 --> 00:53:16,779 them now they have their independence 1183 00:53:22,140 --> 00:53:19,630 annual anafranil that Africa is not even 1184 00:53:24,479 --> 00:53:22,150 better off so we're looking at a 1185 00:53:26,189 --> 00:53:24,489 situation whereby a Africa is a 1186 00:53:30,589 --> 00:53:26,199 continent where there is a whole lot of 1187 00:53:34,039 --> 00:53:30,599 blind faith superstition dogma and 1188 00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:34,049 superstition based practices and 1189 00:53:40,439 --> 00:53:37,839 incidentally some of these practices we 1190 00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:40,449 are we addressed by the colonial 1191 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:42,910 authorities introduced legislation like 1192 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:45,729 what we call the witchcraft act which is 1193 00:53:50,939 --> 00:53:47,170 a legislation to combat which were 1194 00:53:53,429 --> 00:53:50,949 physicians and not just in nigeria in 1195 00:53:55,769 --> 00:53:53,439 Nigeria in other countries yes yes many 1196 00:53:59,599 --> 00:53:55,779 for instance in may or former colonies 1197 00:54:03,269 --> 00:53:59,609 of over Britain you know they had that 1198 00:54:06,269 --> 00:54:03,279 witchcraft act and after independence 1199 00:54:07,919 --> 00:54:06,279 these countries adopted you know these 1200 00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:07,929 legislations as part of the national 1201 00:54:14,670 --> 00:54:09,280 legislations 1202 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:14,680 not originally in Africa in other words 1203 00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:18,210 they were not instituted by Africans 1204 00:54:23,150 --> 00:54:20,640 many of these countries are not 1205 00:54:26,340 --> 00:54:23,160 enforcing this legislation so we have 1206 00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:26,350 laws against witchcraft accusation but 1207 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:29,320 is incidentally witchcraft accusation is 1208 00:54:34,530 --> 00:54:31,210 very rampant and people who perpetrate 1209 00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:34,540 such crimes they go unpunished so this 1210 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:37,440 is just one out of so many of 1211 00:54:41,700 --> 00:54:40,210 superstitious practices in Africa that 1212 00:54:45,540 --> 00:54:41,710 have been traveling and I've been making 1213 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:45,550 it impossible or sometimes difficult to 1214 00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:48,970 establish vibrant vigorous humanists or 1215 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:53,920 skeptical movement and do you think how 1216 00:54:59,550 --> 00:54:55,570 much of it do you think is to do with 1217 00:55:02,010 --> 00:54:59,560 the with poverty and with the low level 1218 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:02,020 of education yeah there are poor people 1219 00:55:06,750 --> 00:55:05,050 everywhere even here in Australia you 1220 00:55:09,210 --> 00:55:06,760 have more people there are some people 1221 00:55:10,770 --> 00:55:09,220 who are poor so it does not mean that 1222 00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:10,780 because you are poor then you have to be 1223 00:55:16,380 --> 00:55:13,170 safest issues or you have to be gullible 1224 00:55:19,020 --> 00:55:16,390 yes poverty is a factor but there are 1225 00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:19,030 other factors lower standard of 1226 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:23,200 education yes is also another factor but 1227 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:25,210 I really think that it is lack of 1228 00:55:30,870 --> 00:55:27,490 political will on the part of Africans 1229 00:55:32,910 --> 00:55:30,880 to tackle these problems today we are 1230 00:55:34,890 --> 00:55:32,920 not living in isolation Africa is only 1231 00:55:37,050 --> 00:55:34,900 need an isolation we have lessons to 1232 00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:37,060 learn from other continents for instance 1233 00:55:42,510 --> 00:55:39,250 the problem of which wound Europe had 1234 00:55:45,930 --> 00:55:42,520 habit they addressed it and have moved 1235 00:55:48,180 --> 00:55:45,940 on and what is happening in Africa today 1236 00:55:49,890 --> 00:55:48,190 in terms of witch hunt what what 1237 00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,900 happened enough in Europe let's say 1238 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:52,000 followed by years ago so it means that 1239 00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:55,810 Africans have learned nothing from the 1240 00:55:59,370 --> 00:55:57,610 laces of Europe and we need to do that 1241 00:56:01,410 --> 00:55:59,380 so that we don't repeat the mistakes of 1242 00:56:04,170 --> 00:56:01,420 other people of other countries of other 1243 00:56:05,490 --> 00:56:04,180 continents so what I'm saying is this is 1244 00:56:07,260 --> 00:56:05,500 not just all about poverty there are 1245 00:56:09,330 --> 00:56:07,270 poor people in issue in a pocket in an 1246 00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:09,340 America report here in Europe is really 1247 00:56:14,670 --> 00:56:12,250 all about lost another education is a 1248 00:56:17,370 --> 00:56:14,680 lack of political will is all about the 1249 00:56:20,340 --> 00:56:17,380 fact that you know Africans are so 1250 00:56:22,510 --> 00:56:20,350 reluctant to learning from the lessons 1251 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:22,520 of other countries 1252 00:56:28,330 --> 00:56:25,130 damnations analysis and use these 1253 00:56:30,580 --> 00:56:28,340 lessons to alive in the continent pull 1254 00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:30,590 the continent up pull the continent out 1255 00:56:38,410 --> 00:56:34,640 out of this doldrums of stagnation or 1256 00:56:41,230 --> 00:56:38,420 wrath and decadence so as you mentioned 1257 00:56:44,020 --> 00:56:41,240 you've you've been traveling you've come 1258 00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:44,030 here from all slow you've mentioned when 1259 00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:45,170 we had a chat earlier that you actually 1260 00:56:48,220 --> 00:56:46,910 travel quite a lot throughout Africa can 1261 00:56:51,790 --> 00:56:48,230 you describe some of your travels 1262 00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:51,800 throughout Africa well I'm I've have 1263 00:56:58,450 --> 00:56:54,080 been to are they over touch in African 1264 00:57:01,540 --> 00:56:58,460 countries trying to establish human 1265 00:57:03,490 --> 00:57:01,550 skeptic Russian on this group trying to 1266 00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:03,500 promote the campaign for a reason 1267 00:57:11,260 --> 00:57:07,730 science critical thinking and lobbying 1268 00:57:14,110 --> 00:57:11,270 the government and promoting human 1269 00:57:16,390 --> 00:57:14,120 rights are campaigning against my rights 1270 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:16,400 abuses particularly those abuses that 1271 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:17,570 are committed in the name of 1272 00:57:27,370 --> 00:57:23,810 superstition tradition or culture now my 1273 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:27,380 experience is sometimes is not very 1274 00:57:34,030 --> 00:57:31,690 encouraging because people somehow 1275 00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:34,040 deeply superstitious and sometimes are 1276 00:57:41,770 --> 00:57:39,130 very hostile to messages that a 1277 00:57:44,470 --> 00:57:41,780 misleader have opposed to what they are 1278 00:57:47,590 --> 00:57:44,480 used in terms of traditional types of 1279 00:57:49,180 --> 00:57:47,600 cultural practices but I know that we're 1280 00:57:51,370 --> 00:57:49,190 making some progress we are recording 1281 00:57:53,190 --> 00:57:51,380 some success in some countries like in 1282 00:57:56,380 --> 00:57:53,200 Malawi today we have a vibrant 1283 00:57:59,380 --> 00:57:56,390 humanistic skeptic group I have 1284 00:58:02,280 --> 00:57:59,390 activists that are walking to come back 1285 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:02,290 what we have in the country as 1286 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:05,930 state-sponsored which aren't a situation 1287 00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:08,410 where state institutions are 1288 00:58:16,180 --> 00:58:12,850 collaborating with some mobs and some 1289 00:58:21,940 --> 00:58:16,190 very dogmatic a superstitious elements 1290 00:58:26,500 --> 00:58:21,950 to incarcerate put in jail woman Electra 1291 00:58:28,740 --> 00:58:26,510 which is a wizard also in Uganda who 1292 00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:28,750 have been able to establish some schools 1293 00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:32,050 the quality of education is is a photo 1294 00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:34,770 we have made a lot of new routes yeah 1295 00:58:45,020 --> 00:58:41,370 in kenya in Ghana in Senegal Zambia 1296 00:58:46,910 --> 00:58:45,030 South Africa and in other countries we 1297 00:58:50,810 --> 00:58:46,920 have activists or we have some upcoming 1298 00:58:52,910 --> 00:58:50,820 groups so I think that even though we 1299 00:58:54,740 --> 00:58:52,920 have a lot of problems yes we have a lot 1300 00:58:58,130 --> 00:58:54,750 of challenges and the progress we have 1301 00:59:00,320 --> 00:58:58,140 made is reversible at this point what I 1302 00:59:02,660 --> 00:59:00,330 think that today we are better off and 1303 00:59:05,350 --> 00:59:02,670 we hope that the progress we have made 1304 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:05,360 in these countries we continue now 1305 00:59:12,550 --> 00:59:08,610 you've had your own quite difficult 1306 00:59:15,470 --> 00:59:12,560 experiences the arm that up to do with 1307 00:59:16,940 --> 00:59:15,480 witch hunts in the results and by trying 1308 00:59:19,010 --> 00:59:16,950 to protect people you have suffered 1309 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:19,020 personal consequences yeah you tell us 1310 00:59:25,850 --> 00:59:23,130 about that that was early this year you 1311 00:59:29,390 --> 00:59:25,860 know I was I was arrested by the police 1312 00:59:32,780 --> 00:59:29,400 are beaten up by the police and them 1313 00:59:34,550 --> 00:59:32,790 because because of work and they did 1314 00:59:37,550 --> 00:59:34,560 they got to know that I was involved in 1315 00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:37,560 addressing this problem another aspect 1316 00:59:43,940 --> 00:59:40,530 is that we have a specialist challenges 1317 00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:43,950 from pastors of churches many churches 1318 00:59:51,890 --> 00:59:47,040 are springing up in Africa in Nigeria 1319 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:51,900 and many of them try to be relevant by 1320 00:59:57,770 --> 00:59:54,330 blaming the problems Africans are facing 1321 01:00:00,800 --> 00:59:57,780 on witchcraft and of course when you or 1322 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:00,810 when I try to tell the people that look 1323 01:00:06,620 --> 01:00:04,530 this'll eyes you know our problems are 1324 01:00:08,930 --> 01:00:06,630 not a sort of witchcraft the pesticide 1325 01:00:12,530 --> 01:00:08,940 deceiving you extorting money from you 1326 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:12,540 they exploit you you the churches are 1327 01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:14,970 not happy so they feel that number one 1328 01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:17,520 you are really undermine Indian market 1329 01:00:24,170 --> 01:00:21,030 and the few threatened so they have been 1330 01:00:27,470 --> 01:00:24,180 very hostile in 2009 they invaded a 1331 01:00:31,970 --> 01:00:27,480 conference we organized in in the color 1332 01:00:34,730 --> 01:00:31,980 by south south south Manchuria and the 1333 01:00:37,790 --> 01:00:34,740 beat me up and no cost a lot of problems 1334 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:37,800 you know because they said that our 1335 01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:40,370 message was undermining their right to 1336 01:00:45,860 --> 01:00:43,680 believe in witchcraft and all that so we 1337 01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:45,870 have this hostility coming up Dodgers 1338 01:00:49,420 --> 01:00:47,730 from the politicians but also from 1339 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:49,430 church groups 1340 01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:53,010 but I know very well as a campaign a 1341 01:00:58,940 --> 01:00:56,400 very important companies cannot just be 1342 01:01:01,940 --> 01:00:58,950 executed without having some obstacles 1343 01:01:05,180 --> 01:01:01,950 here and there so for me I see them as 1344 01:01:07,069 --> 01:01:05,190 challenges but i hope that term not end 1345 01:01:10,130 --> 01:01:07,079 of the day will overcome and i will 1346 01:01:12,829 --> 01:01:10,140 succeed in making account history in 1347 01:01:16,190 --> 01:01:12,839 nigeria in africa I'm the other parts of 1348 01:01:17,779 --> 01:01:16,200 the world I I think we might have to 1349 01:01:19,220 --> 01:01:17,789 take a bit of a break because it's 1350 01:01:21,799 --> 01:01:19,230 getting a little bit dark and very windy 1351 01:01:23,779 --> 01:01:21,809 i'm sure the listeners can hear the wind 1352 01:01:26,809 --> 01:01:23,789 in their microphone okay so i think what 1353 01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:26,819 we might do is the birds we can we can 1354 01:01:31,339 --> 01:01:29,760 see some cockatoos okay coming in there 1355 01:01:33,289 --> 01:01:31,349 a bit further away maybe we'll take a 1356 01:01:35,210 --> 01:01:33,299 bit of a break and look at the birds a 1357 01:01:36,589 --> 01:01:35,220 little bit and then we'll go to a place 1358 01:01:40,730 --> 01:01:36,599 where there's no wind and we'll continue 1359 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:40,740 this conversation okay thank you yeah 1360 01:01:47,410 --> 01:01:44,010 okay so we now we've moved away from the 1361 01:01:51,829 --> 01:01:47,420 wind we're sitting in a car here a 1362 01:01:54,670 --> 01:01:51,839 little bit a little bit warmer you're 1363 01:01:56,990 --> 01:01:54,680 not used to August being so cold are you 1364 01:01:59,510 --> 01:01:57,000 know because I come from a background 1365 01:02:05,089 --> 01:01:59,520 yeah it rests a lot but it doesn't get 1366 01:02:06,620 --> 01:02:05,099 as cold you know yes okay so just so 1367 01:02:08,510 --> 01:02:06,630 going back to the things that we 1368 01:02:12,319 --> 01:02:08,520 discussed earlier so you you discussed 1369 01:02:13,940 --> 01:02:12,329 the situation that you situations that 1370 01:02:15,710 --> 01:02:13,950 you've encountered where you were beaten 1371 01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:15,720 up and all that but your father was 1372 01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:17,910 attacked as well yes yes yes but I was 1373 01:02:22,519 --> 01:02:20,160 attacked in there because of the fact 1374 01:02:24,349 --> 01:02:22,529 that sometimes when people want to 1375 01:02:26,599 --> 01:02:24,359 attack you they can't reach you they 1376 01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:26,609 would somebody related to you all these 1377 01:02:33,289 --> 01:02:29,609 are forced to break your back all these 1378 01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:33,299 are forced to demoralize you and make 1379 01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:36,000 you feel that if we can't get to get 1380 01:02:40,819 --> 01:02:37,920 somebody close to you so that's always 1381 01:02:43,579 --> 01:02:40,829 it is just it was just a Mac criminal 1382 01:02:45,620 --> 01:02:43,589 operation you know and all that so my 1383 01:02:48,170 --> 01:02:45,630 Farrah was attacked and then he had a 1384 01:02:50,089 --> 01:02:48,180 deceleration because the hit him with a 1385 01:02:53,420 --> 01:02:50,099 stone one of the eyes and he bled from 1386 01:02:56,150 --> 01:02:53,430 Eiland there we had to remove the ISO so 1387 01:02:57,410 --> 01:02:56,160 that's that's just it even my member i 1388 01:02:59,420 --> 01:02:57,420 was also had talked about wish she 1389 01:03:00,790 --> 01:02:59,430 wasn't wounded they because they fired 1390 01:03:03,940 --> 01:03:00,800 gunshots and there 1391 01:03:05,710 --> 01:03:03,950 Ted I know that amalah saw this last 1392 01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:05,720 part of there and you had to move you 1393 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:07,910 yeah fri yes I've moved them away from 1394 01:03:11,530 --> 01:03:09,770 where they live yes I moved him away I 1395 01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:11,540 moved them away fact right now stay with 1396 01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:13,850 my father but my mother is staying in 1397 01:03:18,100 --> 01:03:16,370 the US with my sister just to make sure 1398 01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:18,110 that we move them from that era God are 1399 01:03:23,590 --> 01:03:20,570 very vulnerable and you know people 1400 01:03:26,500 --> 01:03:23,600 could easily use that to you know to 1401 01:03:28,540 --> 01:03:26,510 maybe send some message across to me and 1402 01:03:30,940 --> 01:03:28,550 all that so what move move them away 1403 01:03:33,820 --> 01:03:30,950 from I think it kind of puts things in 1404 01:03:35,860 --> 01:03:33,830 perspective regarding the kind of risks 1405 01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:35,870 that or the kind of dedication that you 1406 01:03:40,780 --> 01:03:39,170 require to be an activist in different 1407 01:03:43,030 --> 01:03:40,790 places because obviously you know will 1408 01:03:44,980 --> 01:03:43,040 we face all kinds of challenges here in 1409 01:03:47,710 --> 01:03:44,990 Australia as well but I don't think any 1410 01:03:50,620 --> 01:03:47,720 one of us ever feels that there's a risk 1411 01:03:52,990 --> 01:03:50,630 of personal injury yeah yeah yeah the 1412 01:03:55,060 --> 01:03:53,000 fact there is that there are people who 1413 01:03:58,240 --> 01:03:55,070 have vested interest either way these 1414 01:04:01,090 --> 01:03:58,250 are the justices in which one to which 1415 01:04:02,860 --> 01:04:01,100 prof liquidation current system that we 1416 01:04:04,780 --> 01:04:02,870 will have on the who have vested 1417 01:04:07,870 --> 01:04:04,790 interest you know the system as it is 1418 01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:07,880 now so I will you come out you want some 1419 01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:10,610 kind of challenge where people have this 1420 01:04:14,740 --> 01:04:12,530 is Alicia stagnation you want some kind 1421 01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:14,750 of justice in the situation where people 1422 01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:17,680 are benefiting from injustice it was a 1423 01:04:24,190 --> 01:04:20,720 little no corruption in the situation 1424 01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:24,200 here corruption is generating income for 1425 01:04:28,510 --> 01:04:26,510 some people you definitely gonna face 1426 01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:28,520 some risk you're gonna face some dangers 1427 01:04:33,340 --> 01:04:32,000 and another so that is that's the kind 1428 01:04:36,430 --> 01:04:33,350 of situation where we'll find ourselves 1429 01:04:38,260 --> 01:04:36,440 and but it doesn't stop us from calling 1430 01:04:40,750 --> 01:04:38,270 for a just society because it just 1431 01:04:43,150 --> 01:04:40,760 society is is it just a sacrifice body 1432 01:04:44,860 --> 01:04:43,160 not just for some acre of corruption 1433 01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:44,870 free societies a corrosion free society 1434 01:04:49,420 --> 01:04:47,090 for everybody not just for so and a 1435 01:04:51,970 --> 01:04:49,430 society where people you know no 1436 01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:51,980 attitude just need for instance people 1437 01:04:57,310 --> 01:04:55,610 are not sent to jail because somebody 1438 01:04:59,410 --> 01:04:57,320 call them which is a wizard is a 1439 01:05:01,750 --> 01:04:59,420 dissenter side is that a lattice society 1440 01:05:04,210 --> 01:05:01,760 not just for me not just my family but 1441 01:05:07,450 --> 01:05:04,220 for a full of everybody so so that is 1442 01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:07,460 what gives me encouragement because I 1443 01:05:12,340 --> 01:05:10,160 know very well that the workers driving 1444 01:05:13,329 --> 01:05:12,350 in order to achieve is something that 1445 01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:13,339 eventually will 1446 01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:17,210 defeat everybody and I noticed that you 1447 01:05:23,170 --> 01:05:19,930 on the one hand you're quite focused on 1448 01:05:24,339 --> 01:05:23,180 witch hunt as a major issue yeah on the 1449 01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:24,349 other hand you've mentioned several 1450 01:05:29,229 --> 01:05:27,410 times issues that have do not 1451 01:05:31,569 --> 01:05:29,239 traditionally have anything to do with 1452 01:05:33,789 --> 01:05:31,579 this chemical movement or the humanists 1453 01:05:37,979 --> 01:05:33,799 law or with the critical thinking yeah 1454 01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:37,989 I'd say yeah things like justice and and 1455 01:05:44,279 --> 01:05:41,599 we're fighting corruption what would he 1456 01:05:48,759 --> 01:05:44,289 say is for you the most important thing 1457 01:05:52,420 --> 01:05:48,769 in the most important goal perhaps that 1458 01:05:57,130 --> 01:05:52,430 you're fighting for my goal is to have a 1459 01:06:00,579 --> 01:05:57,140 society here decisions policies but your 1460 01:06:03,430 --> 01:06:00,589 phone by a reason science critical 1461 01:06:06,789 --> 01:06:03,440 thinking and human rights yes that's my 1462 01:06:09,759 --> 01:06:06,799 goal in other words policies informed by 1463 01:06:12,239 --> 01:06:09,769 own reason by irrational beliefs by 1464 01:06:15,339 --> 01:06:12,249 dogmatic beliefs should not be allowed 1465 01:06:17,279 --> 01:06:15,349 this should be fought this should mean 1466 01:06:20,019 --> 01:06:17,289 people should campaign against them so 1467 01:06:22,719 --> 01:06:20,029 so that is my goal why I mentioned all 1468 01:06:26,229 --> 01:06:22,729 this which was it is just worn out of so 1469 01:06:28,989 --> 01:06:26,239 many older issues so a situation whereby 1470 01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:28,999 we have a society we are values of 1471 01:06:36,609 --> 01:06:30,910 raising science and critical thinking 1472 01:06:39,130 --> 01:06:36,619 govern guide politicians people they are 1473 01:06:42,059 --> 01:06:39,140 what what we use that should i call them 1474 01:06:44,529 --> 01:06:42,069 benchmarks or what we use to measure 1475 01:06:46,539 --> 01:06:44,539 determine the decisions we take for 1476 01:06:48,910 --> 01:06:46,549 ourselves and for generations the atom 1477 01:06:51,219 --> 01:06:48,920 bomb so that is my goal so all these 1478 01:06:55,359 --> 01:06:51,229 issues are coming in as a result of the 1479 01:06:58,719 --> 01:06:55,369 fact that there are issues where I have 1480 01:07:00,339 --> 01:06:58,729 a problem in terms of the fact that they 1481 01:07:05,469 --> 01:07:00,349 were not informed or they are not 1482 01:07:09,180 --> 01:07:05,479 informed you know risen is suspended or 1483 01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:09,190 sense critical thinking is suspended and 1484 01:07:15,700 --> 01:07:11,920 and of course people are suffering again 1485 01:07:18,029 --> 01:07:15,710 yeah because right now we have in Africa 1486 01:07:21,309 --> 01:07:18,039 a situation where people are suffering 1487 01:07:24,099 --> 01:07:21,319 when they should not people are dying 1488 01:07:26,599 --> 01:07:24,109 when they should not now let me tell you 1489 01:07:30,739 --> 01:07:26,609 this experience when i was ten my 1490 01:07:33,079 --> 01:07:30,749 was BTW bees into a coma the almost here 1491 01:07:36,349 --> 01:07:33,089 what happened there was some speculation 1492 01:07:42,259 --> 01:07:36,359 that two of my cousins wanted to use my 1493 01:07:43,759 --> 01:07:42,269 mother for ritual sacrifice now my 1494 01:07:46,729 --> 01:07:43,769 father got to know about it and went and 1495 01:07:49,190 --> 01:07:46,739 confronted the broader and broader na 1496 01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:49,200 went and informed the two songs and his 1497 01:07:53,569 --> 01:07:51,839 missions now come back home and one 1498 01:07:55,849 --> 01:07:53,579 early morning they came to our house and 1499 01:07:58,460 --> 01:07:55,859 it is assisted that my father must tell 1500 01:08:01,519 --> 01:07:58,470 them who informed him and I wanted to 1501 01:08:03,859 --> 01:08:01,529 use mine what it use my mother for me to 1502 01:08:06,170 --> 01:08:03,869 sacrifice my own father bluntly refused 1503 01:08:08,089 --> 01:08:06,180 that would have fun them they attack 1504 01:08:10,009 --> 01:08:08,099 immediately I've been a bit him into a 1505 01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:10,019 coma this what happened when I was dead 1506 01:08:14,150 --> 01:08:12,690 so many years ago and i was asking 1507 01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:14,160 what's the problem nobody could tell me 1508 01:08:19,550 --> 01:08:16,650 exactly why they could inflict such 1509 01:08:21,140 --> 01:08:19,560 interiorly him you know and only the 1510 01:08:23,090 --> 01:08:21,150 letter told me that it has to do with 1511 01:08:25,010 --> 01:08:23,100 the room all that time I mother was 1512 01:08:27,490 --> 01:08:25,020 devoted to use my mother for each or 1513 01:08:30,260 --> 01:08:27,500 sacrifice on or not and it has so many 1514 01:08:32,570 --> 01:08:30,270 cases light at you in my country nigeria 1515 01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:32,580 when you see families fighting as a 1516 01:08:37,879 --> 01:08:35,130 result of suspicion based on the occult 1517 01:08:41,030 --> 01:08:37,889 book aquatic believes superstitious 1518 01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:41,040 believed and all that so that is it and 1519 01:08:46,099 --> 01:08:44,250 can live in such a society and I know 1520 01:08:48,169 --> 01:08:46,109 very well we're better of which risen 1521 01:08:50,990 --> 01:08:48,179 and critical thinking and I will not 1522 01:08:53,059 --> 01:08:51,000 even add a voice add my voice I will not 1523 01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:53,069 I will not support i will not have a 1524 01:08:58,220 --> 01:08:55,770 campaign whether it succeeds ultimately 1525 01:09:00,050 --> 01:08:58,230 or not is all mine but i know that this 1526 01:09:01,789 --> 01:09:00,060 is a campaign that is important for my 1527 01:09:03,140 --> 01:09:01,799 people so that they should not be dying 1528 01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:03,150 needlessly they should not be suffering 1529 01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:06,000 needlessly when they can benefit amount 1530 01:09:09,849 --> 01:09:07,920 by thinking rationally by thinking 1531 01:09:11,990 --> 01:09:09,859 critically I think it's scientifically 1532 01:09:13,519 --> 01:09:12,000 thank you very much and I hope you enjoy 1533 01:09:17,530 --> 01:09:13,529 your stay in Australia yeah thank you so 1534 01:09:17,540 --> 01:09:30,499 you got 1535 01:09:38,130 --> 01:09:32,820 thank you for listening to episode 1536 01:09:42,030 --> 01:09:38,140 number 150 of the skeptic zone our third 1537 01:09:45,450 --> 01:09:42,040 anniversary Wow I'll let you celebrate 1538 01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:45,460 that by yourself all in private I hope 1539 01:09:49,410 --> 01:09:47,440 old dear friends I really do hope we can 1540 01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:49,420 have a think tank soon it's been far too 1541 01:09:54,780 --> 01:09:52,810 long since we've had a think tank again 1542 01:09:56,340 --> 01:09:54,790 all I can say is people are busy and 1543 01:09:59,280 --> 01:09:56,350 it's a little bit hard to get everybody 1544 01:10:03,270 --> 01:09:59,290 together but we'll aim for that don't 1545 01:10:05,370 --> 01:10:03,280 forget coming up next month is skeptic 1546 01:10:06,900 --> 01:10:05,380 camp in Melbourne and we certainly will 1547 01:10:09,450 --> 01:10:06,910 be giving you more information about 1548 01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:09,460 that as it gets closer now I must 1549 01:10:14,220 --> 01:10:11,050 mention to you that in the past few days 1550 01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:14,230 I did visit there a wonderful city of 1551 01:10:19,169 --> 01:10:16,330 Melbourne now people listening in 1552 01:10:21,209 --> 01:10:19,179 Melbourne please please don't let me 1553 01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:21,219 hear you complain about your public 1554 01:10:28,709 --> 01:10:25,690 transport it's wonderful it's brilliant 1555 01:10:31,229 --> 01:10:28,719 I love the trans the buses the trains it 1556 01:10:34,620 --> 01:10:31,239 works it's great i love the [\h__\h] 1557 01:10:38,459 --> 01:10:34,630 especially anyway in Melbourne I visited 1558 01:10:41,310 --> 01:10:38,469 MacKinnon secondary college and had a 1559 01:10:45,570 --> 01:10:41,320 wonderful time speaking to about 65 or 1560 01:10:48,570 --> 01:10:45,580 so students during the lunch hour I was 1561 01:10:51,150 --> 01:10:48,580 there as the guest of teacher adam van 1562 01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:51,160 langenberg and what a wonderful time i 1563 01:10:55,860 --> 01:10:53,650 had folks it was really fantastic to 1564 01:10:58,050 --> 01:10:55,870 talk to the kids they had really 1565 01:11:01,620 --> 01:10:58,060 interesting interesting questions for me 1566 01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:01,630 and I rounded off my presentation to 1567 01:11:04,740 --> 01:11:03,280 them where I bend some spoons and did 1568 01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:04,750 some more to divining and all that sort 1569 01:11:11,189 --> 01:11:08,650 of stuff we have the the talk welcome to 1570 01:11:13,530 --> 01:11:11,199 science by our dear friend dr. Phil 1571 01:11:16,459 --> 01:11:13,540 Plait if you haven't read it please 1572 01:11:19,890 --> 01:11:16,469 google welcome to science Phil Plait and 1573 01:11:23,939 --> 01:11:19,900 it's a wonderful wonderful piece to read 1574 01:11:26,070 --> 01:11:23,949 to students Thank You Adam for having me 1575 01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:26,080 at your school Thank You students and 1576 01:11:30,780 --> 01:11:28,090 thank you dr. Phil Plait for writing 1577 01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:30,790 such wonderful words for me and others 1578 01:11:38,189 --> 01:11:34,449 to use but for now and until episode 1579 01:11:44,570 --> 01:11:38,199 number 151 this is Richard Saunders 1580 01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:46,980 you've been listening to the skeptic 1581 01:11:55,740 --> 01:11:51,970 zone visit our website at www skeptics